Political Attitude Overall (Page 3 of 4)

Show me one of those mental cases who could have afforded such a weapon, and I'll show you two dozen gang members and organized crime members who have them here in the country anyway illegally.  They ARE available, and they ARE here.....but only if you're in the mafia 

um....when did I say that?  I WILL say now that allowing the government to take your only tangible means of defense, you are following in the footsteps of Nazi Germany and most other totalitarian regimes.

NOT that we are in immidiate danger of falling under such a regime any time soon.  But times change, and people change.  If and When such a movement ever tries to come to power, tight gun regulation won't be much of a problem for them, as most of the ground work has been well laid for them already

The chief enabler of the 'trademark' IS the disarmament of the citizen population.

Surely you don't plan on using a bolt-action rifle if about twenty people came into your house attempting to kill you? that's where semi and auto come in handy. otherwise resort to using the rifle as a club.

I'm gonna have to ride shotgun with Ralin here, I agree with ALMOST *not all* of what he's said. First off, Heavy Automatic Firearms (such as the SAW) are expensive, and I mean EXPENSIVE, same goes with large bore weapons such as the Barrett .50BMG Rifles/other or .50AE Desert Eagle/equivalent handguns.

Summary - High Caliber Weapons -

1. They are large and almost unwielding -

2. Small ammunition capacity

3. Expensive

4. Have to have special permits to own in most areas

EXAMPLE -

Barrett Model 99 .50BMG bolt action, weighs 23 lbs, no magazine (means one shot then you have to manually reload) costs over $4,000 U.S dollars with taxes. The ammunition it requires is the 12.7x99mm NATO cartridge, (For you poeple who don't know what I'm talking about, it's known as the .50cal bullet that everyone is sooooo afraid of) commercially available, it costs between $1.75 and $2.25 EACH.

Apparently all of you have/know how to purchase a firearm (har har), I'm just going to go over it again for ya just in case. ALL 50 STATES before you buy a gun of ANY kind, the gun shop, store, Wal-Mart or wherever, run a Federal background check on you. If you have any criminal record whatsoever, you will be turned down and will not be allowed to purchase the firearm. ALSO the weapon must be registered at some point or the other.

Seems like a pain in the *** huh?

Not neccecerally  Ak-47's are cheap as p***. You may not have a criminal record... Yet.

What I'm saying is that if a man, breaks in to your house would you rather have him with a nine millimeter pistol, or a SAW?

And for home defence, all you need is a pistol, realy who would need an assault rifle to defend their home, especially in the suburbs. I dont think your going to have any inner city gangs come into your house and mob you. And why is it that many of the people who seem to be pissed off about gun control live in the country. If somone comes out to kill you in the country and a pistol isnt enough, then your screwed anyways. Pistol, shotgun, or bolt action rifle. Ive fired two of those, and I think that if I was being attacked and I had either one of those two I wouldnt need an automatic or large caliber weapon.

RD you implied it by saying that if the goverment took our weapons then it was more likely that we would slowly become something of the sort. The only use for large calliber weapons in my oppinion is hunting or in the millitary, theres not much sense for it to use as a weapon, but they are still more dangerous then other guns. Shoot a guy in the arm with a low caliber rifle, if it missed an artery then hes probably just going to the hospital for some minor surgery. Shoot a guy in the arm with something like a Barret....I dont think he'll use that arm for a while.

I understand having automatic weapons to use at ranges because I have 'shot' an M4 (or an M16) and a SAW, even though it was at a simulation range, and it was fun, but the people who own then need to be screened big time, and the police should be able to check up on the weapons storage to make sure its locked up properly and kept out of the hands of those who aren't fit to use it. Oh and another thing, say the owner of the weapon is robed by someone with a pistol, now the guy with the pistol has a automatic weapon at his disposal and he might just decide to go kill a few people, just because you have a gun doesnt mean that no one will rob you.

*COUGHPAYCLOSERATTENTIONCOUGH*

I live in Japan , and there are no guns allowed of any kind here. You can, with a great deal of difficulty, get a permit for a hunting/ sport rifle but the police regulate the flow of those weapons so that citizens usually do not have constant access the their own rifles. They keep them in a lock up and you have to check the rifle out over the weekend etc. Just as in other countries with the same policy this does not stop violent crime from happening. Yes, the violent crime rates are lower here but people back in the states only get the news of crime in Japan when it is something really big. There is a lot of petty, dangerous, crime here all the time. Teens go around stabbing strangers in crowds. One guy drove a van through a big crowd of people and then jumped out and started stabbing the few people still standing. I live in a very controlling society. It is so bad here that people just snap all the time from the pressure to conform.   Again, it's not in the international news a lot but it is here in the local news.

SO what I am getting at is that this topic is an issue of degree and balance.  The degree to which we are willing as a society to allow for personal freedoms, such as the right to own automatic weapons and the balance that we have to strike between that and public safety. But as others have mentioned above, it's not the honest citizen who is going to the gun shop and buying guns who is then going out and killing people with them, it's people who are criminals. And, I have to agree that it should not matter if you NEED an automatic weapon or not, if we, want to live in a free country it has to be totally free, you can't have it both ways.

When I was growing up in California I felt safer at night in the city than I do here in Japan in certain places. Because here, ONLY, the criminals have guns. And, if we start banning guns in the states that's what will happen, only the criminals will have access to them.

Neither did they say or intend that in any of the laws they've passed up to now.  But they are gradual stepping stones to that point.

Well what I'm saying is who is to say what is and what isn't needed?  Just because YOU don't need anything more then a pistol, or just because guys like TW and IG-88 feel safe hoping there's a cop on the corner, maybe other people have Different needs. 

Fett_II brought up the scenario of 20 guys breaking into your house.  I totally understand who completely RARE such a thing would be, and I'm pretty sure he mentioned it in jest.  HOWEVER, people on the southern border *not really in my area, but in south Texas and south-east Arizona* people every night have to live in fear of Mexican gangs called 'coyotes' coming into the U.S. side, sometimes in large numbers and committing brutally heinous home invasions, and of course the drug mafia and armed smugglers crossing their lands.  In some crime ridden cities, people who obey the law and don't keep a firearm due to regulation are totally at the mercy of gangs and criminals, and their only defense is an over burdened and stretched police force.  You would take away their right to own a weapon that would at least give them a chance to fight off such an attack.   

Well, what you'd personally would rather face is not up to you.  It's up to the criminal.  Just because a law is passed that prohibits guns doesn't mean the guy coming at you won't get one some other way.  If YOU have only a knife because of firearm regulation deems your area 'protected' by local law enforcement or whatever reason they come up with to strip your rights, and the criminal breaks into your house with a SAW, with a semi-automatic assault rifle, or with a little .22 pistol, you're in a really rough situation.

The VERY simple fact of the matter that so many people don't seem to understand is that laws, against guns or whatever, only affect law abiding people.....the criminals will illegally obtain a gun or some other kind of weapon.  In a strict atmosphere *like schools, cities, and close urban environments usually* offers a criminal a very tempting opportunity, as he can feel fairly certain that there's nobody that can give him a fight. 

As I stated before, every school shooting was in a 'Gun Free Zone.'  The laws that are up didn't help, what evidence makes you think tighter ones will?

But putting my question aside for a moment, I want to remind everybody that this is a thread asking for opinions on the subject, not a brawl.  It's a touchy subject to many, myself included.  There are simply my opinions on the subject, and I'm trying to offer counter points on other people's assertions.  Not flaming anybody or their opinions, and I respect that most every one else here has done the same. 

I think it's a good debate we have, and just want to keep it clean so it won't get locked

---RD

And that's your right to feel that way and choose not to own one.  But is it your right to say nobody else can have one?

That's very true.  It is their job to regulate such things based on the needs and desires of the populace/their constituents.

It's just my fear that people like I described, who have to deal with real danger alone on the border, or in really bad neighborhoods, and even the few in decent places to live who just want that safety net if the worst should happen, are getting forgotten and ignored because an ever increasing percent of the population fears guns for one, and second have bought the government's line that they will protect us *and do most every thing else for us*, when it's usually not the case for the initial victims.

I just have a serious issue with the spoon-fed, government will care for you *while they let things like corruption at the highest levels go unnoticed, financial instability, and in general screw everything up*  mentality that seems to be growing, and a taking away of the self reliance part of American life that originally made us great.

Well guns dont usualy work when the gunpowder is wet....soooo

You said "automatic firearms are expensive". Dont talk like that to me man i'm not interested in childishness.