Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

tachyonblade wrote:
Werda Verd wrote:
tachyonblade wrote:

I tend, personally, to take Homer Simpsons' view on religion...I worship God in my own way and I am sure that God being God understands that...if he doesn't then he wouldn't be God.

See, that really doesn't make sense--it disagrees most major religions today. You can't have more than one true religion. That is what give people the reason to say that their religion is the only way.

You can't expect your version of god to accept you simply because you believe that he exists, especially if you don't even know what god you're "worshiping". Thats just making up your own god. You can't tailor a god to your own desires. If you don't know what god you worship, how can you follow the laws he's laid down? How can you follow him?

Its one thing to follow a religion, another to make your own up.

This is why I've not gotten involved in this. I knew It'd end badly. Sorry for coming across antagonistic, but it makes no sense no matter what direction your coming from.

You are kind of making my point for me here...I don't believe in organized religion on any level because it is, in the end, all arbitrary! People believe whatever it is they want to believe. There are people who consider themselves christians who follow rules and dogma that are not even in the Bible.

But more importantly, what I was trying to say was
1.) that people shouldn't judge others' religious views.
2.) No one should be a slave to ideology. ( and I will never, ever believe there is only one true religion, I think that is ethnocentric, self-centered and myopic!)
3.) People should have a sense of humor, I am sure God does.

Why organized religion makes sense is that you simply can't make God be what you want him to be. That simply doesn't work. You can't judge people based on their beliefs, but that doesn't mean they're all right. That to is impossible.

I agree about people who claim to be "Christians" are aren't. There are a LOT of those.

Some people believe what they want to believe (which it seems to me is what your doing, correct) but some believe what they know is right. Thats the key difference.

And God very well may have a sense of humor, or irony. When your the most intelligent being in the universe, it probably gets a bit lonely, especially before humanity.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yff3jH8NECs]"Touch my Awesome Button."[/url]
--Captain Dynamic--

Werda Verd's Website

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Werda Verd wrote:
tachyonblade wrote:
Werda Verd wrote:

See, that really doesn't make sense--it disagrees most major religions today. You can't have more than one true religion. That is what give people the reason to say that their religion is the only way.

You can't expect your version of god to accept you simply because you believe that he exists, especially if you don't even know what god you're "worshiping". Thats just making up your own god. You can't tailor a god to your own desires. If you don't know what god you worship, how can you follow the laws he's laid down? How can you follow him?

Its one thing to follow a religion, another to make your own up.

This is why I've not gotten involved in this. I knew It'd end badly. Sorry for coming across antagonistic, but it makes no sense no matter what direction your coming from.

You are kind of making my point for me here...I don't believe in organized religion on any level because it is, in the end, all arbitrary! People believe whatever it is they want to believe. There are people who consider themselves christians who follow rules and dogma that are not even in the Bible.

But more importantly, what I was trying to say was
1.) that people shouldn't judge others' religious views.
2.) No one should be a slave to ideology. ( and I will never, ever believe there is only one true religion, I think that is ethnocentric, self-centered and myopic!)
3.) People should have a sense of humor, I am sure God does.

Why organized religion makes sense is that you simply can't make God be what you want him to be. That simply doesn't work. You can't judge people based on their beliefs, but that doesn't mean they're all right. That to is impossible.

I agree about people who claim to be "Christians" are aren't. There are a LOT of those.

Some people believe what they want to believe (which it seems to me is what your doing, correct) but some believe what they know is right. Thats the key difference.

And God very well may have a sense of humor, or irony. When your the most intelligent being in the universe, it probably gets a bit lonely, especially before humanity.

Although I get your point it doesn't really make sense...no one, in their right, mind believes something that they know to be wrong. So you are saying that the "key difference" between my believing in something and a christian believing in something is that I believe in something that I don't think is right?  That really does not compute for me.

I think my conception of God gives him a great deal more credit than most christians'. I am rather confident that he alone decides the nature of reality, not humans reading a book...

Speaking of which, I read the good book a great deal and as anyone who does so can tell you, Jesus spoke in parables and riddles. He did this for a number of reasons. not the least of which was that he wanted to separate the wheat from the chaff (so to speak) in a spiritual sense. Ultimately, only Jesus and his dad knew what was what. There was no church, no organizational structure there were just people trying to learn how to live a good and just life.

A good example of this is the idea that is you commit suicide you automatically go straight to hell, no questions asked.   To believe this is to diminish the power of God to determine the nature of reality. Only God decides if a person goes to Heaven or Hell and for his own reasons. Anyone who thinks otherwise has a very limited and dim perspective of the all mighty.

I do understand that organized religion plays an important sociological role in the modern world but in the end people like the BTK serial killer was a church goer and look at what kind of person he turned out to be!

"D'oh!"
[url=http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/multimedia/galleries/thumbnails.php?album=lastupby&uid=1624]My Fan Art[/url]

tachyonblade's Website

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Ok, the quotes are getting long. So I'll start straight.

No, I was saying the difference between someone who believes what they want versus what is taught is simple--do you KNOW what you believe is true. The "book" that Christians live by has its significance in the fact that its writing was guided by God's hand. Our "reading a book" has nothing to do with salvation--it was his writing it. Where do you base your faith? It has no foundation, no confirmation.

You believe it, I can believe anything. Where is the backing?

What I'd say is the problem with your belief is that it centers around the belief that God will accept anyone. Theres no standard, no action, no specific belief. Thats not how God is portrayed most any religion--they all center around faith and a specific standard. Whether it is Christianity, Judaism, or Islam, they all hold true to that.

And as you have tied Jesus to the God you believe in, I presume you mean it to be the same God all three religions worship.

Going to church, and organized religion does not mean much. And I disagree with the suicide=hell theory. God does decide who goes to heaven and hell, but not based on whether you've met a specific standard, or arbitrary.

On the Contrary, it is a more accurate view of God--its narrower, yes. But God is a Holy and Pure God--he cannot have sin in his presence. And we all sin. That is something I imagine we agree on. So how do you overcome sin? In ancient times, it was a simple sacrifice, and following the laws set by God and the Priests (for the Israelites), and to believe the Messiah was coming. When he came, though, his death, as a pure and holy sacrifice, infinitely more significant than a pigeon or lamb, atttoned all sin, past, present, and future. You only need to accept his gift.

That is where the clearest view of God is--a Holy, Loving God will to subject His son, and in a sense, himself, to the most horrific punishment imaginable--beyond crucification, Christ had to bear sin, as a perfect being. All you have to do is accept the gift.

It is a standard, and clear way in, an easy way in, but not a open gate.

He did speak in riddles and parables, because speaking forthrightly could have gotten him killed. He wanted people to think, to understand what he was teaching.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yff3jH8NECs]"Touch my Awesome Button."[/url]
--Captain Dynamic--

Werda Verd's Website

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/co … yahoorefer

fine example to prove evolution.

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Not really, considering the Pygmies of the Congo in Africa are similar, but they're just as smart a everyone else. Or if you want to be stubborn, there's always monkeys with arthritis, like good 'ole Lucy!

Some may run a short while, but none of them would bide.

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Werda Verd wrote:

Ok, the quotes are getting long. So I'll start straight.

No, I was saying the difference between someone who believes what they want versus what is taught is simple--do you KNOW what you believe is true. The "book" that Christians live by has its significance in the fact that its writing was guided by God's hand. Our "reading a book" has nothing to do with salvation--it was his writing it. Where do you base your faith? It has no foundation, no confirmation.

This concept of "truth" still eludes me. Who are you, or any other christian or anyone else for that matter, to tell me what truth is?

There is no truth. There is only belief.  People, christians, used to burn people alive because they did not agree with the church. What kind of truth is that.  AND, the same thing happens today. Why can't people get it through their heads that they don't know everything. I am so sick and tired of the self-righteous people telling me what reality is about. If you really have it all figured out then the rest of us are all f---cked. If you are happy with that idea then good for you. I believe that if God is there he is way more powerful and omnipotent than most christians think.   The church, the Bible, the Judeo-christian-islamic tradition are all human constructions. God decides everything despite some small pathetic bible study or sermon.

I am not going to contribute to this thread anymore because it makes me believe less in God not more. The more I talk with christians the less I want to be one.

I think truth is subjective and there is no one single exact way to experience it. And I think it is very unchristian to try to force one's beliefs on others and I think most christians should be more flexible about the nature of God and his place in the universe. This world is such a hard place to live in and people can be so cruel, why would you want to tell someone they are going to hell because they do not believe the same way you do?

What we need is more compassion and understanding and tolerance and more understanding...not more myopic, closed-minded dogmatic assertion of religious beliefs.

Basically, I hate anyone who thinks they have it all figured out. The most stupid people I know are those who think they are the smartest. Absolutism will be the end of us all.

"D'oh!"
[url=http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/multimedia/galleries/thumbnails.php?album=lastupby&uid=1624]My Fan Art[/url]

tachyonblade's Website

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

tachyonblade wrote:
Werda Verd wrote:

Ok, the quotes are getting long. So I'll start straight.

No, I was saying the difference between someone who believes what they want versus what is taught is simple--do you KNOW what you believe is true. The "book" that Christians live by has its significance in the fact that its writing was guided by God's hand. Our "reading a book" has nothing to do with salvation--it was his writing it. Where do you base your faith? It has no foundation, no confirmation.

This concept of "truth" still eludes me. Who are you, or any other christian or anyone else for that matter, to tell me what truth is?

There is no truth. There is only belief.  People, christians, used to burn people alive because they did not agree with the church. What kind of truth is that.  AND, the same thing happens today. Why can't people get it through their heads that they don't know everything. I am so sick and tired of the self-righteous people telling me what reality is about. If you really have it all figured out then the rest of us are all f---cked. If you are happy with that idea then good for you. I believe that if God is there he is way more powerful and omnipotent than most christians think.   The church, the Bible, the Judeo-christian-islamic tradition are all human constructions. God decides everything despite some small pathetic bible study or sermon.

I am not going to contribute to this thread anymore because it makes me believe less in God not more. The more I talk with christians the less I want to be one.

I think truth is subjective and there is no one single exact way to experience it. And I think it is very unchristian to try to force one's beliefs on others and I think most christians should be more flexible about the nature of God and his place in the universe. This world is such a hard place to live in and people can be so cruel, why would you want to tell someone they are going to hell because they do not believe the same way you do?

What we need is more compassion and understanding and tolerance and more understanding...not more myopic, closed-minded dogmatic assertion of religious beliefs.

Basically, I hate anyone who thinks they have it all figured out. The most stupid people I know are those who think they are the smartest. Absolutism will be the end of us all.

Ah yes.
I believe it was Socrates who said it was the wise man who admits he knows nothing.
I have taken to observing for the moment, so please excuse me, I just wanted to add that little reference to quotation there.

Disciple Sift Through Lies; Few Grains Of Truth Be Known...

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Seco Fett wrote:

Not really, considering the Pygmies of the Congo in Africa are similar, but they're just as smart a everyone else. Or if you want to be stubborn, there's always monkeys with arthritis, like good 'ole Lucy!

you're clearly missing my point. the point is to show that man evolved from these pygmies into better beings on their own. not by some omniscient being who still isn't proven to have existed.

259 Reply by Mandalore Hunter (edited by Mandalore Hunter Tuesday, February 3, 2009 9:36 am)

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Christians tried to prove the existence of God and failed. Atheists tried to disprove God and met a similar failure.
You cannot prove him, yet you cannot entirely disprove him either.

"I swear by the soul I don't have, I am going to kill you."
―Boba Fett

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Addressing both proof and truth--no, we cannot offer "scientific proof" that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt for ANYONE that God exists. But rationally, it makes a lot more sense than, as a background I once saw, "There was nothing....and then nothing exploded, and made everything".

Admittedly, there have been a lot of "Christians" that committed atrocious acts. But Christian organizations are often the first to aid or care for disaster victims. Some of the largest aid organizations are Christian-run (ie, Samaritans Purse, etc).

True, it is belief. But it is a belief with a backing far greater than arbitrary belief and hope that God likes you enough to tell Peter to open up. Its a belief that God loves everyone enough to send his Son, and by extension, part of himself, to die. Its about love, and a gift. Thats it. It is entirely separate from the groups that have committed crimes, and also the groups that have shown great love. Because what really matters is you and God.

Nothing else. There are hundreds of supernatural healings that have occurred, that no science can explain. Most of creation science can't fully explain.

I hate trying to explain it, because its never enough. And I'm far from the most knowledgeable as far as defending Christianity goes. I very well may have made things worse, which wasn't my intention. But to me, believing in a God YOU ascribe properties to, and who has no conditions or boundaries, makes no sense. I had to respond to that.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yff3jH8NECs]"Touch my Awesome Button."[/url]
--Captain Dynamic--

Werda Verd's Website

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Fett_II wrote:
Seco Fett wrote:

Not really, considering the Pygmies of the Congo in Africa are similar, but they're just as smart a everyone else. Or if you want to be stubborn, there's always monkeys with arthritis, like good 'ole Lucy!

you're clearly missing my point. the point is to show that man evolved from these pygmies into better beings on their own. not by some omniscient being who still isn't proven to have existed.

I thought that was a great example. The evidence was right there staring everyone in the face. Fett_II, dont bother at this point. I dont think anyones going to change their mind.

Est Sularus Oth Mithas
I am a Role Playing Gamer, like my father before me.

262 Reply by Seco Fett (edited by Seco Fett Tuesday, February 3, 2009 3:25 pm)

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

So now you are being racist! The Pygmies are nice people who are probably more polite than most Americans, and yet you are calling them inferiors! Hitler did too. I should call the hotline on you for being so mean to them! If I said that about black people, I'd be in jail!

The Smithsonian has a nice collection of "prehistoric" skulls right? Most people don't know that in the 1800's the Aboriganies of Australia were hunted and slaughtered by the thousands to get they're skulls and sell them to museums. Next thing you know, they'll be out there killing pygmies.

And I have no reason to believe that God used Evolution to create. I do not believe in macro evolution AT ALL.

Some may run a short while, but none of them would bide.

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

You're putting words in peoples mouths again. You did that to me several times and thats why I stopped posting. Stop taking peoples words out of context and twisting them around into bad things. You're only going to make enemys from it.

Half Dragon, half human, 100% Fett!

CeciliaCrimsondragonFett's Website

264 Reply by Valthonin (edited by Valthonin Tuesday, February 3, 2009 5:05 pm)

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Seco Fett wrote:

So now you are being racist! The Pygmies are nice people who are probably more polite than most Americans, and yet you are calling them inferiors! Hitler did too. I should call the hotline on you for being so mean to them! If I said that about black people, I'd be in jail!

The Smithsonian has a nice collection of "prehistoric" skulls right? Most people don't know that in the 1800's the Aboriganies of Australia were hunted and slaughtered by the thousands to get they're skulls and sell them to museums. Next thing you know, they'll be out there killing pygmies.

And I have no reason to believe that God used Evolution to create. I do not believe in macro evolution AT ALL.

...You've got to be kidding me...


FIRSTLY, you are insulting Americans. I am an American and damn proud. You are therefore insulting me.

SECONDLY, you dare compare me to Adolf Hitler? I suggest you quit while youre ahead. Now.

THIRDLY, the scientists who work at the Smithsonian are not fools. I'd bet my life that they can tell whether a skull is 10 weeks old or 10,000 years old.

Est Sularus Oth Mithas
I am a Role Playing Gamer, like my father before me.

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

I'm proud of being an American too, but that doesn't mean we're all incredibly polite....there are plenty of bad, or even just plain rude, people.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yff3jH8NECs]"Touch my Awesome Button."[/url]
--Captain Dynamic--

Werda Verd's Website

266 Reply by Mandalore Hunter (edited by Mandalore Hunter Tuesday, February 3, 2009 8:37 pm)

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Werda Verd wrote:

Addressing both proof and truth--no, we cannot offer "scientific proof" that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt for ANYONE that God exists. But rationally, it makes a lot more sense than, as a background I once saw, "There was nothing....and then nothing exploded, and made everything".

Admittedly, there have been a lot of "Christians" that committed atrocious acts. But Christian organizations are often the first to aid or care for disaster victims. Some of the largest aid organizations are Christian-run (ie, Samaritans Purse, etc).

True, it is belief. But it is a belief with a backing far greater than arbitrary belief and hope that God likes you enough to tell Peter to open up. Its a belief that God loves everyone enough to send his Son, and by extension, part of himself, to die. Its about love, and a gift. Thats it. It is entirely separate from the groups that have committed crimes, and also the groups that have shown great love. Because what really matters is you and God.

Nothing else. There are hundreds of supernatural healings that have occurred, that no science can explain. Most of creation science can't fully explain.

I hate trying to explain it, because its never enough. And I'm far from the most knowledgeable as far as defending Christianity goes. I very well may have made things worse, which wasn't my intention. But to me, believing in a God YOU ascribe properties to, and who has no conditions or boundaries, makes no sense. I had to respond to that.

Were you saying I am not a Christian (I'm not angry, just trying to understand your post). I was trying to make a point to Atheists (not convert) that you cannot disprove God.

"I swear by the soul I don't have, I am going to kill you."
―Boba Fett

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Like me. LOL. How am I putting word in mouths? I'm trying to be as correct as possible. And I'm sorry if I made Americans out to be impolite, but I never meant to insult them! I only meant that the Pygmies of the Congo are very polite. I didn't mean to "compare" you to Hitler, just to say he thought certain races of people were inferior too(not meaning to put words in your mouth!). And who said the scientists dated the skulls? They just ordered and bought them from Australia.

By the way, I'm really a nice person in real life, it's just...I don't know. I reckon I have just as many friends as I do enemies. 0. Like Jango said I guess. "No friends no enemies. Only allies and adversaries." I hate that.

Some may run a short while, but none of them would bide.

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Now that is ONE big question !!!!
Does bats believe in God .No ...not really,,as Man-Kind has gone though becoming the Moden Mankind
somewhere along the way ,,Man,,  either a Default Gene or part of the Disign,,has one thing that differ us
from Animals it is call a Conscience,,the first thing Man was to DRAW,,they becames Gods,,and it
does guide Man kind
As for the Tem Comments,,all People in way have these but one is more important to other Races
Like to the Westen World,,Killing is a bad sin ,and other Cultures it 's OK but ,Going with another  Man's Wife
is a bad thing  but that's the way things are

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Just a little interesting fact that most of you probably know the commandment is sometimes incorrectly stated as "Do not Kill", would more accurately be translated as "Do Not Murder".  So there is another thing the Catholic church has changed slightly.  Random fact for the day.

[i]Like I told your captain, the orphange attacked me.  It was self-defense.[/i]  -Richard the Warlock  [url]http://archive.lfgcomic.com/lfg0002.gif[/url]

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Mandalore Hunter wrote:

Were you saying I am not a Christian (I'm not angry, just trying to understand your post). I was trying to make a point to Atheists (not convert) that you cannot disprove God.

Not either way, I didn't know/remember. Just responding to you saying that it wasn't proveable, as thats a common point in discussions like this. Sorry for the confusion.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yff3jH8NECs]"Touch my Awesome Button."[/url]
--Captain Dynamic--

Werda Verd's Website

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

I'm glad I stayed out of you twos' little discussion. Thats one good point to me at least...and patience. I have a lot of patience.

Some may run a short while, but none of them would bide.

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Oh, Seco. Next post, realize what you type before clicking the 'Submit' button.

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Werda Verd wrote:
Mandalore Hunter wrote:

Were you saying I am not a Christian (I'm not angry, just trying to understand your post). I was trying to make a point to Atheists (not convert) that you cannot disprove God.

Not either way, I didn't know/remember. Just responding to you saying that it wasn't proveable, as thats a common point in discussions like this. Sorry for the confusion.

The point I was trying to make was he isn't disproveable.

"I swear by the soul I don't have, I am going to kill you."
―Boba Fett

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

No, he's not. I wasn't that sure what you were saying at first, but your right. He's not.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yff3jH8NECs]"Touch my Awesome Button."[/url]
--Captain Dynamic--

Werda Verd's Website

Re: Do you believe in God or evolution?

Fett_II wrote:

Oh, Seco. Next post, realize what you type before clicking the 'Submit' button.

Oh no...What did I say wrong now. sad

Some may run a short while, but none of them would bide.