Topic: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

What do you guys think?

Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

Well, yeah, if the Jedi hadn't been so traitorous none of that had to happen...  tongue

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Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

Thats true

Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

I think it's entirely possible. For one thing, both factions fighting had been deceived by Count Dooku. And if Anakin hadn't been such a douche, then maybe the message to the clones would never have been sent. Obviously, Palpatine had intended to execute order 66 from the beginning, but if the clone troopers had known that the Jedi were attempting to remove him because he was a Sith, then none of that would have had to happen. Also, after reading the Boba Fett 1-6, I wonder what would have happened if Fett had tried to sell the information about Dooku to someone else. I mean, he went to Palpatine about it, but did he ever try to let anyone else know?
If I'm getting my stories mixed up, forgive me. It has been a while since I read Republic Commando Order 66 and Boba Fett 1-6.

Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

Ariana wrote:

I think it's entirely possible. For one thing, both factions fighting had been deceived by Count Dooku. And if Anakin hadn't been such a douche, then maybe the message to the clones would never have been sent. Obviously, Palpatine had intended to execute order 66 from the beginning, but if the clone troopers had known that the Jedi were attempting to remove him because he was a Sith, then none of that would have had to happen.

Very good points. But I think that Dooku was acting off of Palps' orders. If Anakin had killed Palps when he had the chance....

Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

Yeah, if Anakin had just done what needed to be done, none of that would have happened...
This is going to sound ridiculous, but I swear when I read Republic Commando Order 66, I was so distraught I was depressed for two days! It was horrible knowing that most if not all of that could have been prevented.

Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

However we must been in mind the full picture of things. Balance  needed to be brought to the Force. The Force is a whole, and everything is in the Force. For there to be only two Sith and thousands of Jedi is not to have balance. The scale was greatly tipped towards the Light. Once almost all the Jedi were gone the Force was brought back into balance. Think of it as a giant scale of gray with one side being Dark and the other Light. Too many of one or the other and it's unbalanced. This could also go for individual people, like the balance of themselves. The Jedi Order of the prequel trilogy was unbalanced by being too Light, too good, too sterile for lack of a better word. The New Jedi Order, Luke's Order, was more gray than absolute Light Side. (Think Kyp Durron, a Jedi but certainly not one who would be acceptable by prequel trilogy standards.) Their inner selves were more balanced between light and dark. Some say Luke was the Chosen One because of this, that in ROTJ when he's the only one left he is the balance by having both Light and Dark in him. "Only a Sith deals in absolutes," is what Obi-Wan said in ROTS, yet it is an absolute itself, proving my point that the Jedi were tipped too far in one direction and were themselves an absolute with no gray. So while a lot of Jedi did die, and it might be cold and somewhat cruel to say so, it kind of did need to happen in the grand scheme of things. It didn't need to happen as Order 66 exactly. Balance could have been brought in many other ways.

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Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

Miba wrote:

However we must been in mind the full picture of things. Balance  needed to be brought to the Force. The Force is a whole, and everything is in the Force. For there to be only two Sith and thousands of Jedi is not to have balance. The scale was greatly tipped towards the Light. Once almost all the Jedi were gone the Force was brought back into balance. Think of it as a giant scale of gray with one side being Dark and the other Light. Too many of one or the other and it's unbalanced. This could also go for individual people, like the balance of themselves. The Jedi Order of the prequel trilogy was unbalanced by being too Light, too good, too sterile for lack of a better word. The New Jedi Order, Luke's Order, was more gray than absolute Light Side. (Think Kyp Durron, a Jedi but certainly not one who would be acceptable by prequel trilogy standards.) Their inner selves were more balanced between light and dark. Some say Luke was the Chosen One because of this, that in ROTJ when he's the only one left he is the balance by having both Light and Dark in him. "Only a Sith deals in absolutes," is what Obi-Wan said in ROTS, yet it is an absolute itself, proving my point that the Jedi were tipped too far in one direction and were themselves an absolute with no gray. So while a lot of Jedi did die, and it might be cold and somewhat cruel to say so, it kind of did need to happen in the grand scheme of things. It didn't need to happen as Order 66 exactly. Balance could have been brought in many other ways.

I really don't think that there were thousands of jedi during the clone wars. Maybe one thousand or too.

The term Balance of the Force I dont think means same number of jedi-same number of sith. (Example: 2 jedi 2 Sith).

Yes, many people have noticed that Obi-Wan used an absolute. However, Obi-Wan was merely showing Anakin what he had become...trying to make him hear his words the ways others heard them.

I really want to point out that in the end, Anakin kills Palps. Luke was just a conductor of the good that was still in Vader.

Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

Actually, that was pretty much copy and pasted from another discussion that was going on elsewhere.

Yes, by the time of Order 66 the Jedi had been reduced by a lot already due to the clone wars.

As for numbers vs numbers, note that later in my post I said "OR it could mean the balance inside a person".

Do you know that about Obi-Wan from a source? I never read the ROTS novel, so I wouldn't know. I really should read that, I loved the AOTC novel.

And on Luke and Anakin, I merely said "some say". I, myself, don't have an opinion on that matter. Either or, works for me both ways.

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Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

That point about Obi-Wan was my view.

Anyway if the jedi had looked at he 105 orders that the clone had been issued during training they might have been able to erase it.

Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

Karson Fett wrote:

Anyway if the jedi had looked at he 105 orders that the clone had been issued during training they might have been able to erase it.

That is a very good point.

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Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

well, the sith needed to diminish their numbers in order for their conquest of the galaxy to work, as bane realized in path of destruction. and he was absolutely right, with a bajillion jedi and sith running around the galaxy, war would never end, as both sides would continually gain more troops and it would just be a mass obliteration. also, you should definitely read the ROTS novel, it was quite enjoyable.

Ariana wrote:

I think it's entirely possible. For one thing, both factions fighting had been deceived by Count Dooku. And if Anakin hadn't been such a douche, then maybe the message to the clones would never have been sent. Obviously, Palpatine had intended to execute order 66 from the beginning, but if the clone troopers had known that the Jedi were attempting to remove him because he was a Sith, then none of that would have had to happen.

Both factions fighting were deceived by Palpatine, he was controlling the Trade Federation, Republic and Dooku, who's only real role was to help start the war. Also, the clones were made to be "shoot first, ask later" so in the fact that Lama Su explains that they take orders without question, if Palpatine said "The Jedi are traitors", the clones wouldn't doubt it. Also, Dooku was an idiot for not realizing that he was expendable from the beginning, same with Maul.

Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

Maul in my opinion was better than Dooku.

However, he Jedi should have looked into the clones more than they did. It was like taking candy from a stanger. They should have dug more than they did. The fact that the clones were loyal to the Republic instead the jedi hould have had them on constant alert. But hey, thats where complaince gets you

Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

Maul was very sub-serviant and thought nothing of himself, which is one of the reasons why Palpatine didn't mind losing him, Maul would have never rose up to kill Palpatine and take his place. (I got that impression from the Maul's Journal book)

Dooku, however, should have been smart enough to realize it.

Love the Bane books.

I always did kinda wonder about how they just accepted the clones without thought. Like, "gee, a sudden huge army that we apparently ordered" and they don't investigate further? Obi did follow Jango to Geonosis, and he was fighting on Dooku's side, and if Jango was hired to help make the army that's meant to be the Jedi's, unless they take Jango to be very mercenary and just moving from job to job, then they wouldn't suspect anything. But still, they to seem to just take the gift for what it was and didn't look into what it might otherwise be. I never really thought about that. I mean, I'd thought of them not being at least curious, but I never connected it to being a means to prevent Order 66. Sorry, I'm tired, I don't know if that makes a lot of sense.

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Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

They did need it all the sudden.

But if the Jedi ordered it why in the world would the Republic be using it as its Army?

Thats the question that the jedi should have asked themselves

Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

Well that's the whole controversy with master Sifo-Dyas. Originally, one of the ideas going around was that Sidious was claiming to be a Jedi and ordered the army himself using some pseudonym, and the Jedi knew that no such Jedi existed in their order. But I think the official explanation was that he and Dooku were friends, and just before Dooku left the order he convinced Sifo-Dyas to order an army, because Sidious said so. Then he killed him.

Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

To tie up loose ends.

Does Palps seem to be a lot like General Shepard to anybody?

Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

Oh, yes, the Jedi DID need that army right then and there, they just didn't seem to question it's existence too hard.

I saw in a comic that Dooku had Sifo Dyas's body and that's where he got blood and parts for Grevious. I was never certain on his role otherwise.

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Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

I agree the jedi needed the army right away but they should hev looked into it more.

Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

I think that if they wheren't so hypocritical they never would have gotten themselves into that mess. It also could have been avoided if more of them treated the clones like humans.

Verd ori'shya Beskar'gam.

Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

The Jedi had become too arrogant and complacent. I haven't read Order 66 (mainly because I think Travis added too many characters in the series and I got bored with all the sub-plots in the book prior), but taking what I do know, I find it hard to believe that none of the Jedi were able to realise that Palpatine was hiding right under there nose.

What ever happened to "Force visions of the future?" Especially when Palpatine's own master had a vision of the future to come in the Darth Plaguis novel (a very good read too).

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Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

As Yoda said. "The Dark Side clouds everything." Still, the Jedi are not as powerful as they make themselves out to be.

Verd ori'shya Beskar'gam.

Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

I don't think it could have been, Palps would have made it work in the end. The filthy Republic was too vile and corrupt for it not to happen. AND the Jedi were too high and mighty and sure of themselves for it not to go down. Honestly, i would hate it if it HADN'T happened. My favorite part of the Revenge of the Sith is Order 66 (with the exception of Plo and some of the clones dying of course).

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Re: Could Order 66 have been Prevented?

Could Order 66 have been Prevented? Um nope.