Do you believe in God or evolution? (Page 13 of 15)

I was going to stay out of this buuuuut...

One of the things that always gets me is how limited the human ability is to truly understand the nature of reality.

I am a big Fan of Arthur Schopenhauer, a dead German philosopher, who believed that reality is totally subjective.

(Read a book) 

Anyway, not unlike Plato and Aristotle, what we have here is a debate about epistemology. How do we know what we know? What is the nature of knowledge and how does it come to be.
For me it's like Kevin Smith's character says in his movie DOGMA... "It doesn't matter what you believe, it's THAT you believe."  I mean we all have to believe in something, even if it is believing in nothing in principle, and we all have to live our lives as if we understand what is going on to some extent. It become ugly when people try to tell others what it is they are supposed to believe.

I went to grad. school and studied anthropology. I believe evolution is what got us here today. I BELIEVE IT. I don't know it is true. God may be there pulling all the strings but I just don't know and I think people that are overconfident in either direction are waaaaaay off base.  I mean, just look at the economy. If we have it all figured out why are we in such dire straights? Why do bad things happen to good people. Why do some women have to bleach their lip hair?

Does anyone see where I am going with this?

I think it's cool that we can have this kind of discussion here at the BFFC but I also think it's important to realize that some questions have multiple answers, or in some cases, no answers at all.:)

Yes, three kings and the 25th were arbitrary decisions. The kings were based off of the gifts, I'm not sure the reasoning on the 25th, but its common knowledge that we don't know his exact birthdate.

Because humans are highly sinful and fallible. Thats why there is greed, and thats why our economy is so screwed over--people were foolish and frivolous with their money, and its hurting all of us.

Bad things happen to everyone. Sin and consequence don't distinguish their victims.

Oh, and Val--would you say Mohammad existed?

Just as a general interesting, and slightly off-topic; I do apologise, fact, it is a common misconception that the general populace ever thought the world was flat and certainly never "everyone" thought it was so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth

But yes.

Scepticism leads me to believe that if a Christian were to find evidence that Jesus (person) was never born and never existed, the Christians would cover that evidence up in any way possible.

That however is scepticism and the point of faith is to ignore scepticism.
Unfortunately that is something those who do not believe cannot comprehend.
After all how could you possibly ignore reason and evidence in the face of something as trivial as a thought.

I had quite a magnum opus planned for the rest of this post but I think I shall save it. At least for now.

One would hope that they would realise that regardless of whether Jesus exists or not, the ethics he taught are still worth following and that the truth will set one free.

Yes I do.

Well, as often happens, people quote only those sections which support their position. I also asked the question "why do some women bleach the hair on their upper lips?"

My point was that it is stupid for humans to think they can impose too much of their own preconceptions on reality. Some questions have multiple answers or now answers at all.

Zen riddle: What is the sound of one hand clapping? yada, yada, yada...
These are called Koan in Japanese and there are a million of them. They are designed to make the mind think laterally not linearly.

And furthermore, why does the answer to those two questions alone have to be "Bad things happen to everyone. Sin and consequence don't distinguish their victims. " Why does sin have to have anything to do with it at all? Are there absolutely no other alternatives? Is it not possible that other belief systems are able to account for the nature of reality?

I guess I am mostly trying to make a case against closed-mindedness and intolerance.

And the tooth fairy thing...well, I have a really messed up image of what the tooth fairy looks like.

I have no idea why but as a child I thought that the tooth fairy looked like Muftak from the cantina scene
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Muftak

I know, I know how f...ed up is that? I was a weird kid.

I am still waiting for Val to show the evidence to the question i asked.

Christians are not more ignorant than anyone else, i meant humanity in general. When people grow up being taught a religion, it is difficult to tell them that it may be wrong.

Sorry for quadruple posting, I'm trying to address everyone's questions and concerns.

In conclusion, let me just say that I have nothing against believers. At all. I admire your faith and commend how you fight so feverishly for a cause. I really dont think anyones going to change minds here, we can all say our sources are bogus, that we lack evidence, etc. Come on guys, were not going anywhere here. I hope no one looks at anyone any different now.

Course.  You'll always be Lord of the Role Playing Section and one good RPer.  Looking forward to our next board epic we are bound to have sooner or later.  These little one are great and all but they get a bit tiresome after a while.

I just can't get behind your concept of sin.

To quote Joseph Campbell "Whatever you do is evil to someone"

Who are we to decide what is evil and good?

By your standards I have lived most of my life in sin and I will burn in hell forever for it.  What the f..k kind of religion is that!? I think Jesus would be put off by most modern christians.  What about love and understanding and grace.

This is not the place to quote scripture but there is a lot there that I think a lot of christians overlook...I think you are referencing  modern christian dogma when you refer to sin. If that is the case then I think a lot of christians are south bound as well. The Bible, the church, the life of christ and modern, human, christians are all different things.

Who are we to judge, who are we to decide what is sin?

Salvation...why do we need that in the first place?

It seems really cruel from my perspective that God even set up a situation where it was possible for people to burn and writhe in agony for eternity. (But this goes back to free will and a whole can of worms.)

"in clearer terms"... well, people can be crystal clear abut their beliefs and still be wrong.

Bringing the topic back to the original post. Many people are very clear that evolution is how we got here today. They are very clear that its mechanism is natural selection and that natural selection functions through very clear processes. They are very clear but I am willing to say that that does not make them right. I extend the same measure toward christians. Just because your religion in "clear" does not make it, or the belief system behind it, right.

I think I said this earlier but the thing that scares me the most about christians is how certain they are, how confident, how arrogant  they are that they have it all figured out. Having it all figured out is totally impossible scientifically. If scientists can accept that they don't know everything why can't christians?