Topic: CLONING is it morally right?

Hey everyone...this subject came up under a few other threads...so i started one here.     Do you think it is morally right to Clone someone?...i think it is trying to play God...and that never turns out positive. I also think it is morally wrong to do this kinda thing...even if they do it in SW... What do you think? Is it ok to clone or is it a lowlife kinda thing to do?

                                                                {MW} MS9

I think that cloning is extremly sinful, as the clone has no soul, and that is not what God has intended.

I wouldn't say the clone has no soul, it's a copy of the same soul it was cloned from. Morally it's not right at all, scientifically it's a joke, and religously it's unheard of. However, the cloning of an entire human is wrong what about kidneys or livers. What if you could clone those body parts for transplant, it would be a medical miracle.

Speaking of cloning, the alternative would be full cyborization. I don't think I'd want to do that to myself either if it went to the same extreme as D'harhan

I think cloning is a bad idea. It creates identity problems, overpopulation problems, and lots of confusion.

What about cloning empty shells to transfer your consiousness into, (Palpatine in Dark Empire) so that you might achieve IMMORTALITY?
Or cloning an army of soldiers( Palpatine in AOTC) to do all your fighting for you?

I don't know if it's possible to clone "empty shells."  I think that when we clone, we just create the body, not the life.  God in turn puts the soul into the body.  I think that a clone would have its own unique soul, since all you're duplicating is the shape of the body.  I'm not sure about its moral implications, since it's just another form of reproduction, but after all, God's already given us a way to reproduce so why bother cloning?  I am against cloning, however, because it's bound to turn into another second-class human situation, which leads to civil rights violations and genocide.  People always want to find someone less human than themselves so that they can use them or, if they are inconvenient, dispose of them by saying, "Oh, it wasn't really human."  Once we start cloning humans, it would only be a matter of time before we started harvesting their organs or using them as slaves.  If you've ever seen the Island or the TV series Sliders, those are two good examples of this concept.

I see nothing wrong with cloning individual organs, however, unless someone can give me reason to believe that a liver has a soul.

Yes, cloning a liver and such is not  immoral.

i think that cloning full humans is hopefuy never going to happen, but the cloning of organs could and might be right around the coner. i hope that the whating list for kindey could be shortend for years to just days.

i agree with cloning certain organs...but as far as cloning a human, its like chrys put it...the creating of the soul and a whole person cloned....i don't think that is morally right....good posts guys...i'm glad i'm in the majority.

                                                            {MW} MS9

Uhhhh!!! This is confusing! I dont know what I believe in! :/

                                              {MW} TW

Something to ask on your own, you could try spending a few years learning from Wise Tibetan Monks or, stew around with it on your own time.

lol...yeah, like we have the time to sit around with monks....lol lol  he he he   n1

                                                     {MW} MS9

You could ask a fortune cookie.
Seriously, something to ask yourself. No true answer will ever be given to you.

now that sounds more like it....quick/simple/yummy   (always thinkin' with my BELLY!!!)   lol     but really dude   those things are good.... back to subject though..lol

                                                                 {MW} MS9

Well, this problem probably won't come up in real life for a couple of years, so there's no reason to fret about it now.

Like I said earlier, I can't see any reason why we would clone whole people unless we were planning to use them for slaves, soldiers, organs, or meat, all of which is wrong.

*shudder* Cloning is disgusting. It's completely and utterly unnatural!

i agree cloning is wrong, it is trying to be God by makeing a person. but trying to make body parts to replace i think is ok but not trying to creat a person

Ok......I have my opinion.
I think cloning is wrong religiously, but think about it, man. CLONING A HUMAN BEING. Thats really far out science in my book! I mean, cloning is kinda like cheating death, but it's another giant leap for mankind. Who knows what cures can be found for many diseases in the process of cloning. :/ But if you go to far with cloning, ya might wanna watch out or it might go to hell! (Anyone seen the movie The Island?! ;) ) So.......I guess my view is, that it's wrong for most reasons, but good for mankind. :)

                                                               {MW} TW

There's a species in Star Wars that believed their society was as advanced as it was going to get so they started cloning people once the original died as replacements for the exact same position. I believe it's in the trilogy with the Sun Crusher and Admiral Daala. Exar Kun's return.

Cloning is very creepy to me.

One thing I need to say about cloning. Makeing a human=bad. makeing a nonhuman "animal" (for food purposes, or as a beast of burden) thats fine, kills hunger problems. Cloned tissue, like ears, eyes, skin, hearts, lungs etc. Thats fine, the tissue wasnt part of a living greature, its just a singular organ, by deffinition it cant be an organism, it cant think on its own. Thats fine. Saves lives. Why wait for a doner, one who's organ might be rejected, when you can get a new one, made from your cells?

Of course, there is also the issue of the age of cells. If you tried to clone some part of someone who was 30 years old, for example, that body part would age very quickly. To successfully clone someone (something) one would need to get the DNA when it was very young.

At least, I think so. I may be way off base, but it sure makes sense anyways. :)

If you clone something. Like (a person for example.) it starts the cycle over. (if I was cloned. the clone would be a baby. there would be a 13-16 year age difference (HA YOU DONT KNOW MY AGE!)) DNA has nothing to do with age, sure, it tells the body what to do when, but if you clone 30 year old cells, you get new cells. the DNA does not age.

But it does. If someone took my DNA (say I'm 30) then I'll have 30 year old DNA. It is aged. Therefore, even if you cloned someone and they (obviously, RC) began as a baby, their DNA, since it came from my 30 year old DNA, is already aged and is not brand new.

I do love philosophy..........

How do you know for sure thats what God intended? Saying that as a definite statement is kinda unreliable. That may be what you believe, but it may not be true. How do you know the clone would have no soul? Even though, physically, the clone is identical that is not to say that they would have the same soul, or no soul. I would compare this situation to 2 people (lovers or w/e) CHOOSING to have a child. They choose to have a child and do so. When the child is concieved or born or w/e stage, we dont know for sure but eventually, a soul is imparted upon the physical body. So, when scientists CHOOSE to create a clone, perhaps the same thing happens as with the child. Eventaully in a stage of conception or w/e a soul is imparted upon the cloned baby.

Then why isnt two people creating a baby playing God? because it says it in the bible? Thats unreliable. How do we know the bible is correct? Theres thousands of religions out there, who really knows which is right. We dont really know for sure. You may say it is fine for 2 lovers to have a child because they love each other and want a family. True. However some people have children and they do not love each other. Many children are born to ill fitting parents who have no love for each other, but had intercourse for lust and pleasure, accidently producing a baby (Not to say all accidental children are born unto ill fitting parents). So there was no love there. Yet it happened. And many of those children go on to do great things. So maybe God willed it. Just as God may want a clone someday in the future to be created and he'd place a unique soul into the body.

Secondly (this is mainly directed towards both Maltese, Mandalorianspy, ARC's points about creating organs and crreating souls), how can you say that cloning a person is wrong, yet organs are fine? We are made up of organs! So is there a limit to how many organs we can create for one person, or what organs we can create from some person? So if organs are fine, i dont understand how the whole thing can be wrong. 2 rights dont equal a wrong after all, why would a couple more rights equal a wrong? Just because we put the organs together and create a clone doesnt mean we create the soul and put it in. Thats Gods job isn't it? Reproduction creates a child, yet God puts the soul in. We cannot. No matter how we try. We may create the physical recipient of that soul that is destined to have that soul, yet we cannot make a soul........................I think, who knows after all? There is no way to know that what I said is true or not. There is no way to know whether what you guys say is true or not. Except maybe when you meet your maker, whoever you believe him to be. But until then, if there is a God and we meet him...I'll have my notebook full of questions to ask.

And thats basically what I believe on this subject.

Creating an organism is different then creating an organ. an organism is defined as a colection of organs. It uses all of them to function.
An organ can not exist in nature alone, as it has no way to feed itself. (eg, if some one put a living stomach on the dirt, it could not move itself, it could not feed itself, it could not spot/sense danger.)
Organs are only parts of creatures. They are not creatures themselves.

And why is it that creating organs separate is fine and yet creating the whole set together is wrong?

The set that works together is capable of surviveing. An organ is not complete, and would be introduced to a organism. Therefore it would have a purpose. It would technically be part of the recipiant.
Alo, it means that we would no longer need to take organs from voulenteers, we would be able to make new ones from the recipiants tissue.

That answers the question of whats the difference between an organ and the whole set working together. Which I knew. But that isn't what I asked, so it doesnt answer my question.

ok, allow me to rephase that. A stomach, cant think. A human/animal, can. So, you make it, and what do you do with it. Thatl make over population.

Well for one, by the time we master such a thing as cloning for mass production i think over population might not be much of a problem. The company creating the clones would almost definitly provide for those clones, w/e their purpose may be. They probably wouldnt sell them because you know, that is slavery. But that still doesnt answer my question of why its wrong, morally that is. Just because the organs cant think and the whole body would doesnt answer why it would be wrong.

let's see... they made a monkey all out of genes... they cloned a sheep, which has a much different internal system than a human, but is apparently easier to make doubles of... i just say we do it the old fashioned way.

Hear Hear!

I hope we will not start cloning ourselves... "The old fashioned way" seems like a better way.

I never said we SHOULD start cloning, I was just asking why everyone thinks its so wrong.

Hey, I dont think its wrong. Just not now. We need to develop cloning porcedures, to use for like, cows. More food. But, then, you get some crazy adolf hitler type dude who clones himself, then never loses power. If his clones are as cynical as he is that is.

yeah, but cloning arteries and organs would provide useful for stuff like transfers instead of people having to donate and risk a chance of getting cancer or some other disease.

(or the body compelety rejecting the organ, which is more of a risk i think)

Oh hell yeah. Thats my point. When i said just not now, I meant like entire humans. (besides, we could screw up, and make some kinda psychopath. (or if were unlucky, some giant killing machine) Or a new disease.)

I know this is kinda late, but cloning even organs is wrong.  If the person is going to die, the god must have had a reason to kill them, and we should just let nature do its role.  Even if you replace an organ, the person is eventually going to die, so why are we humans so selfish in keeping the person alive for a couple more years.  Everyone dies at some point in their lives. 
And as for cloning animals, animals can think and feel too, they have souls, so we shouldn't even be cloning them.  Just let nature take its course.