Topic: The War in Iraq II

List all your debates about the War in Iraq here.

It's Vietnam II and the sooner it's over the better.

Well if we just went and blew them up we wouldn't have to worry about Iraq.

Vietnam II........ Bah.

I was 100% for the invasion.  All the evidence that Saddam was working on nukes and bio weapons.  We havn't found them yet, but I'm not convinced they weren't there  *and we did find some bio/chemical weapons, but the damn newsies don't like to talk about those 'undesirable' facts*.  But even IF all the mass destruction evidence was BS, I'm still glad we're there killing terrorists OVER THERE rather then fighting them in the streets here or letting them run rampent in Europe. 

I only wish the damn polititions would take the leash off the military and let them do thier job

im going to oversimplify this, but such is life...
Bush and family r a large part of the oil machine.
Cheney is a huge part of the war machine (haliburton).
is it any wonder that we have been at war over involving oil since they were in office?
Someone is making alot of money.

there is one answer to every question in the world...money.

the sooner we come home the better. IMHO

We arent killing terrorists over there, they are killing us. We cant fight an enemy we cant see. I say we take out our troops and bomb the hell out of the entire middle east and make it a parking lot. What were doing now isnt working, we cant drop bombs monday and food tuesday. All or nothing, stop fighting a war with one hand behind our backs.

a move like bombing them back to the stone age, would alienate our country from the global community.
why is that important? because we went into Iraq under the guise of liberation, and freedom.

our true agenda, is more likely to set up our puppet democracy so that we have more control of oil in the future, and keep an eye on Iran.  more importantly we cannot afford(financially) to be at war or continue to loose more lives policing the world.
for the record-i have many friends who r deployed and known some who have died, i have much love and respect for the military.
but will not mince words about the current administration- they r money grabbing clowns who if they ran a business it would have gone under many times over. when was the last time you misplaced billions of dollars and blame it on bad bookkeeping w/ no further explanation..

disclaimer: all comments r the humble opinion of Cujo, who is informed but much like all of us, in the dark about a great many issues. and i mean no disrespect to anyone.

is anyone on this site actually in the military? aside from Sadriel, whom im sure has a thought or two on the subject.

I'm with cujo... has anybody taken a good look at our PRESIDENT? He is nearly a moron.

I agree with that.

Though it is funny seeing bush’s press conferences his mistakes are classic :)

I'm abit confused about how 9/11 lead to Iraq... I thought we were after Osama Binladen in afghanistan to begin with. I would like to give him a swift kick in the nuts, But wouldn't we all? :)

It's amusing to me at just how much the BushBashers contradict themselves.  “He’s so stupid it’s funny!!!”  Yet on the other hand he’s this super manipulator who masterminded not only 9/11, but is somehow making tons of money off of Iraqi oil *that doesn’t seem to be helping us at the pump in any way that I’ve noticed lately,* AND personally blew up the levies in New Orleans because………I think the explanation was that he doesn’t like black people or something. 

Not to mention the brainless wonder managed to beat the Dems in two elections……. Guess it helps when the BRILLIANT people I won’t name vote for things after they vote against them   :P 

I'm not ready to go that far, CG, although I have to wonder if that's the only choice we have left sometimes.  But on your comment that 'we aren’t killing terrorists, they're killing us' because we can't see them, look up the kill ratio sometime.  We're killing them.  A LOT of them.  Just cause you don't see it on CNN or YouTube doesn't mean we're not; that's just a taste to the media bias.  Come on man, look at how bad it was in Vietnam and every other war before then.  We lost a HELL of a lot more then 4000 troops in combat, and we were still kicking butt.  Ever man/woman lost for us is a tragety, but they all joined to do a job, and they're doing it damn well. 

9/11 was never the #1 reason we went to Iraq.  There was a possable connection as we know some of the Al Quida big shots visited Bagdad at times, and we know there were terrorist training camps in Iraq well before we got there.  But it was WMDs that were the stated reason, and I think the unsaid reason was to make a killing field for the crazies over there

But yes, I totally agree that Osama needs a swift kick to the nuts.....and then something a little stronger; say the .45 cure-all?   ;)

See, for me, this debate goes into so many other arguments. I support our troops 100%, but I don't always support why they're there. I used to support Bush, I don't know why. He isn't dumb (at least I think not) he's just globalist, socialist, and fascist. Which is anti-American, so I DO NOT like him. Bush is trying to make one big country out of North America, called the North American Union, including U.S.A., Mexico, and Canada. I don't have anything against those countries at all, I am the least racist person ever. I have been to both countries (if you didn't notice I'm American), but I like sovereignty. I don't know about you guys but.... Also, I believe 100% Bush had foreknowledge of the events that took place on 9/11. So, after all that, he obviously does not have good reasons for being there. And the troops are not being allowed to do their jobs. And not much has been accomplished besides our freedoms being drained away.

I never said he masterminded 9/11, I never said he himself is choreographing the oil situation so he gets money, and I never said he blew up the levies. I dont believe he did any of that (the oil thing is different because although he wasnt the brains behind he he is still reaping the rewards. He did not have to be the one to hatch the plan to make the money, he was just told how to do so). The man is an imbecile. He can give a whole speech, and yet say nothing...if you get my meaning.

What ever. He's WAY better than Clinton who btw is why our economy is bad. What's that? Am I blaming Clinton for the economy? Yes. Everyone who know just a little about this sort of thing knows that your/the president's choices does not effect the here and now it takes a few years. Which is why we have what we have today. Also I am glad we had bush in office and not someone who would have hid under is desk after 911. I do not like everything Bush does, in fact some things he does makes me quite mad. But he is better than the alternative.

HURAH!  I'm not alone in this  :D   Great points Alo, I now forgive you for your April Fools prank   :P

I totally agree.  Your point on the economy is spot on *but you forgot to mention that it was Reagan who gave us the good years during Clinton's time in office, despite his raising of taxes and everything else he fumbled, which we are finally feeling now*

And true, Bush is not the dream guy.  He's been getting worse these last couple years in my opinion *his border 'plan'.......GAH.*  But thank GOD Kerry or some other spaghetti spine liberal isn't running the show......yet

Bush has been in office for two terms...so is it safe to say we are seeing the fruits of his decisions?

Im not really here to pick sides, in truth im fed up w/ government at large. I will likely vote GOP
this time, but either way, my tax bracket in gets no love. Bush has taken care of the rich, Clinton
as most Dems do, did raise taxes on the rich-because Dems r for bigger government. but i think its
safe to say we r all repeating what some other person more informed than us has said.

but back on topic, the war- or mission statement of said war has warped so many times, im not sure anyone can tell u what we r there for at this point. did u know we pay more for gas over there than the iraqis? what the f?
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/03/pentagon.gas.ap/index.html?iref=24hours
like its not enough that we r basically running their country...

the world makes no sense to me sometimes

Be very careful about where this debate goes. Topics of this type on boards not normally set up to deal with arguments about politics, terrorism and the moralities of war can lead into intense arguments and flaming. I'm not saying it will, just a word to be cautious as this is an emotional topic for people.
Now, was or rather IS the war a good thing? Should it have been fought? I think it was going to happen sooner or later, the Iraqi regime WAS spoiling for a fight and given the atrocities Saddam and his government had perpetrated they HAD to be removed.
Was the reasons given for the war accurate? In the end no, but as I said he had to be removed before he killed more people, his own or otherwise. So does that mean the end justifies the means? In this instance, my opinion is yes.
Was the war badly planned? Well it appears that little thought of what to do after the fight is over was made, so in that regard yes.
Did 9/11 contribute to the invasion of Iraq? Yes, put bluntly it gave Bush the excuse he needed to invade. Personally I think it's unlikely that Saddam knew of the planned attacks, but he need to be removed so... and IF he did know... well he's gone now (the hard way) so job done. I'm also sure that the WMD information wasn't correct but it gave the British government the required excuse to "do the right thing". It's clear that Osamma Binladen and his fellow terrorist were in Afghanistan so going on to remove the Talibhan from power there was certainly the right thing to do

Should we support our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan? Not matter if you support the reasons for the conflicts or not the answer is a resounding YES! They are doing their duty on our behalf because they were ordered to, some of them may not even want to be there but because they are in the armed forces they are following orders and doing what they signed up to do. The soldiers, sailors and aircrew serving in Iraq and Afghanistan are not responsible for the war, that's the purview of politicians and governments , simply for carrying it out. Should they be treated as heroes on their return home? Without doubt and by all. It's horrible when some of our men and women are killed on active duty there, but should they be brought home? As soon as the job is done then yes, but not before. We made the mess in Iraq and Afghanistan, we should at least clean it up!

Is Iraq another Vietnam? I'm sure our service personnel serving their wouldn't be pleased to hear the comparison. I have friends in the British Army, serving in Iraq and friends in the Royal Marines serving in Afghanistan, I've had family members serve in other wars and trouble zones over the years and yes it's horrifying to think that any of them could be killed and I hope that it never ever happens but as I said they should come home when the job is done.

well said Orthar, a clean perspective. cheers :)

I think that we should pull out, then wipe them of the face of the earth, and start over.
Like we did with japan in WW2.
And if we wasn't so scared to do what we had to do we wouldn't be in this situation.

Karson, that's so awful that you want to "wipe them off the face of the earth." I hope you get a chance to study some history when you start high school, to be at least aware of the atrocities of war and genocide.

Orthar, agreed. We tend to moderate carefully since it's hard (if not impossible, with all of the age ranges here) to have a constructive debate. Over the years, it's been a fine line, much as it is in daily concourse to discuss.

dont give a crap anymore. still think Osama needs to kick the bucket, though.

What is water boarding? I always hear about it being on CNN

Water boarding is a form of interrogation (the term meaning exactly that or torture depending on your point of view).

People are turned upside down and certain amounts of water are poured down their nose.  Giving the feeling that you are drowning. 

People like John McCain are dead opposed to this as he was tortured when he served in the military.

Jesse Fett, please consider going beyond asking the BFFC community regarding serious issues. Ask your parents, teachers, and peers or quickly search Wikipedia.org or Google/Yahoo/etc. or anywhere elsewhere for that matter when you have such questions.

I dont support the war, but I support the troops, cause they are just doing their job. I hate it when people give troops that just came home crap about what they are doing is wrong, makes my very angry. Cause if they were in the military, they would be doing the same thing. And you hear about "o 4000 americans have died in Irag in the 5 YEARS" think about this, WW1, was 4 years long, Think of all the people killed in WW1 and WW2, 4000 seems pretty low compared to what it used to be. I'm not sayin that 4000 people killed is good, but its pretty low.

I agree with ARC 100%. In World War 1, 116,708 US casualties resulted within 4 years. In WWII we lost 416,800. we've brought that down to 4,000. now, considering these results, its not that bad. Yes I know, that sounds bad, (lose of Human life is never good) but its true.  I support the men and women fighting this war, not the war it self. I just wish It would end.

These numbers were found on Wikipedia.org

BD

Good point ARC, but don't forget, we didn't join WW I until 1917, and it took us some time before we got over there.  WWI was barely a year for us, yet we lost more then we did in WWII  *thanks for the numbers, Boba Dude.*

However, I continue to support the current mission, which is to leave Iraq in a stable situation, which will not crumble and fall to the terrorists and extreamists.  Maybe this wasn't the original goal, but things change.  The line "We were lied to about why we are in Iraq, so we should just leave" makes me so angery.  We are there NOW, no matter what the reason.  People on the left are always talking about what others around the world think of us.  What do you think they'll think if we leave Iraq now, and another terrorist state takes root all because we didn't have the guts to hang in there here at home.  MAYBE the given reasons weren't correct for invading Iraq, but we've made a mess there now, and it's up to us to put at least put some of the pieces back together before we come home.

yes, but WW1 and 2 had numerous amounts of troops, while the War in Iraq is the US (along with some friends) and some random country that sucks compared to the US. i don't even know who we still are officially fighting.

Just thought it had somthing to do with the Iraq war, cause its some sort of issue there or somthing from what I heard

Sir, with all due respect, I am in high school and I have learned about genocide.
But the people of the country have been told what they need to do with there people. And they have not done anything noticeable. Too many of our troops have died over there, and most of them, when they died, left children without fathers, wives without husband (or vis versa), bothers and sisters without brothers or sisters, and newses and nephews without uncles or aunts.  And I know that we'd be wiping out several families with a bomb but they already blow them selves up on their own.
I know that we should try to help as much as we can, but its time to chose, there country or ours.
And, frankly, we have done all we can do over there, and if we want to catch and kill Osoma Benloden so bad why don't just blow the place sky high and that be it.

As much as I dispise the terrorist insurgents in Iraq and would love to have them blown off the map...Nuking them is not the answer. You say dozens...There are hundreds of thousands of Iraqis that wish the better for their country. You just don't understand. You must not value human life as much as you say Karson, because that would be commiting mass murder no matter how you slice it. Another thing, do you have any idea on what the side effects of a nuclear blast are? Think of all the sand and dust in Iraq...Hard to comprehend, right? EVERYTHING that gets sucked into the explosion instantly becomes radioactive. Now think of the wind currents...What will happen to all those particles? They get blown all over Europe, AND OUR ALLIES. Look up the Chernobyl incident and you'll see what I mean. But think through your answer to the problem, it's not the right answer.
And no matter how much you hate the war, SUPPORT OUR TROOPS! They are doing what the signed up for, and fighting for freedom. The news is usurped. I have talked to great men and women who served in Iraq, and it isn't half as bad as the media reports. So what is the right thing? I don't know, but the war isn't a mistake.

uh oh....i say we settle this w/ a high stakes game of scrabble.
:P

you're on. better yet, go against my math teacher.

In case you havent noticed we are already alienated from the global community. We are the laughing stock and the but of jokes around the world. Noone takes the US seriously any more. Sorry to break it to you. Im all for doing the right thing but that isnt ever what the US does. We almost always do the wrong thing and make even more enemies. We were the ones that wanted to institute 3/4 of the treaties and agreements with NATO but then we ourselves refuse to sign them, I mean come on!!!!!

As for 9/11 anyone who cant see it was an inside job is completely blind and under the biggest false sense of security ever. It wasnt the 1st time the US has "planned" or "helped plan" an attack on its own people.

1. We had advanced knowledge of Pearl Harbor, but we needed a logical reason to go into WW2. As before the attack we were just suppling guns and food to the allies, the economy was dead and needed a lift so what better way to give it than war? Right? Correct.

2. In 1962 right after the Bay Of Pigs accident, the joint chief of staff and his team came up with something called "Operation Northwoods" which was a "justifacation to invade Cuba". In the document "Northwoods" it suggests chemical or terror attacks on american citizens in Miami, the Keys and even Washington. All to provoke US aggression against Cuba. The only reason this never passed was because JFK thought it completely immoral and against common sense. But it just goes to show you to never put anything past the United States.

Butt of all jokes.  Right.  You obviously haven't heard any of the Canadian ones.

"Is it true you have polar bears as pets?"

"Do you live in igloos?"

"Do they have pizza in Canada?  Or is it to cold to cook them?"

Yes I have been asked those.  And the last one was in all seriousness.  Now excuse me my dog sled team is getting hungry.

Telling a country to do something isn't how you go about it. Imagine if another country told us to do something another way. Think about it.

Casualties are on both sides. We're also not losing civilians, but they are. In much greater numbers. Think about it.

Other than the sectarian civil war, saying "they already blow them selves up on their own" is just wrong. Such a sweeping generalization of a population. Think about it.

As for "why don't just blow the place sky high and that be it," take a look at the reasons why we're really there. Then look at the countries and our formal affiliations. Consider how the mission in 2001 is now in such a different  direction than the mission today in 2008. Think about it.

After learning about genocide -- defined as a "deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group" -- you still think the U.S.A. should just nuke 'em, huh? Even if just one man and his network of cronnies, says popular opinion, were responsible? Wow... That's unfortunate.

As for the high school comment, my mistake. ("Their people," not "there people." "Visa versa," not "vis versa." "Brothers," not "bothers." "Nieces," not "newses." "Themselves," not "them selves." "Osama bin Laden," not "Osoma Benloden.")

;)

But sir, you don't understand. We wouldn't be committing genocide if dropped a bomb on them. We would be defending our country.
Forgiven,sir
think nothing of it.

Given that what you persist in proposing IS 1) a War Crime and 2) Genocide I think it is safe to say, that I for one am thankful you are still in High School and not a position of responsibility. I also think that you are deliberately posting inflammatory remarks like that to provoke a reaction from people, so I'll not bite except to say let's pick up this argument when you've grown out of your console inspired "blast 'em all to hell" phase and seen a little more of the real world.

It is not defending your country Karson.  It is an act of genocide.  I hardly think stooping to the level of the terrorists we are trying to stop is going to solve anything.  They purposefully kill innocents.  And there is no garuantee that dropping a bomb will stop anything.  The bombs the US dropped in Japan stopped the war because the Japanese cared about their people.  The Muslim extremists do not even go to the point of encouraging civilwar between different sects of their religion (Sunni, Shiite, Kurd etc.)  You can never completely root out these people.  That's why an ever-present force is needed.

Karson I'm sorry but a Boba Fett Forum is not the place for Religious and Political debates.  The main reason we are here is because of Fett and even though there is a Fans section, controversial topics like this need to be limited.

Agreed. Let's change the subject from Karson's concern -- we've exhausted the point -- but leave it open for more thoughtful, civil discussion.

Does anyone know of President Obama's plan for a complete troop pullout?  Or for now has he just said that it will be more of a gradual phase?

I've heard its going to be gradual, but I have a bad feeling about it. We're basically leaving ourselves open to an attack, and that isn't good.

Well, if there weren't so stinking many civilians...I"D SAY BLOW THE WHOLE COUNTRY TO KINGDOM COME!!!!!!

...wow.

.......................You're sick. Really sick.

according to his plan, i believe about 1/3 of troops will be home by one year from now.

Well, until the secret that we were actually doing well there, there was a greater push for immediate pullout. But now that the Generals are cautioning NOT pulling out, its not such a priority. I say we stay until the Iraqis can help themselves. Once they're independent of our aid, we leave. But if we leave early, and someone like Iran moves in, formally or no, we'll have lost many troops in vain.

How am I sick? If we automatically killed every terrorist there it would have the same effect! Like I said...IF THE CIVILIANS WERE OUT OF THE WAY.

Killing all the Terrorists in one area might make them martyrs to terrorists in other places. It's not wise to have bombing an entire country or area to the ground as a first resort.

You do realize all terrorists are not in one place right? What you're suggesting is destroying an entire region of Asia. That being said, an entire ecosystem is wiped out. Thus, killing off some species of animal, no doubt.

Take a bow.