Topic: Karen Traviss...

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February 15, 2009 9:48 am #

Agreed. I enjoyed Hard Contact a lot, but it was Triple Zero that clinched it. The introduction of Mandos, especially Kal (AMAZING character), and the Nulls, was what made love the books more than any Star Wars series.

Now, I just sit back and eagerly await the next books.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yff3jH8NECs]"Touch my Awesome Button."[/url]
--Captain Dynamic--
February 20, 2009 5:39 pm #

Travis is the greatest, I love reading her books, and I must have read each at least 5 times. The Nulls are my favorite. One thing I have to object to is Corr. He actually at one point suggested lining up Palps and the other politicians and shooting them. Since he used to be a regular, rank-and-file clone trooper, and not an independant ARC or RC, I seriously doubt he would say that.

But besides that, I think she is fantastic.

"None of this is really happening. There is a man. With a typewriter. This is all part of his crazy imagination."
February 20, 2009 6:59 pm #

I think she was trying to say that the normal rank and file troopers, were conditioned and had their genes munipulated to where they simply felt loyalty to whoever they were told to be loyal too, with out much thought. But once they took a step back and looked at the big picture (which is what being with the commandos did for Corr) he suddenly starts to feel like why the hell hes fighting.

So its not like the Clone Troopers are permanetly brainwashed or anything, they'er just prone to being docial to whoever happens to be holding the leash.

[i]"Sir, Finishing this Cake."[/i]
February 20, 2009 7:55 pm #

Yeah I understand what you are saying. Human beings are too unpredictable to be always 100% loyal.

"None of this is really happening. There is a man. With a typewriter. This is all part of his crazy imagination."
February 26, 2009 10:28 am #

hses done woderfull things with the clones and manadlore but not with fett.i admire individuals who stand alone.

SF is what life is all about.
February 26, 2009 2:57 pm #
Mandal_ShadowWarrior wrote:

So its not like the Clone Troopers are permanetly brainwashed or anything, they'er just prone to being docial to whoever happens to be holding the leash.

I have to disagree.  If this was true, Order 66 wouldn't have been nearly as sucessful because too many of the clone specialists who's job it was to one day stand side by side with their Jedi, and the next day wipe them out would have been turned by their generals.  You see in Ep. III that Obi-Wan has a fairly close relationship with his top clone commander *was it Cody?  I forget...*, yet the clone coldly orders his men to fire on Obi-wan, and they blindly obey. 

I'm not sure what the canon explanation is on the early clone mental conditioning *or if there even is one*, but I've always been of the opinion that they were imprinted mentally with a bound devotion to their Emperor.  This my be a more simplistic way of explaining their actions, but it does the job.  If there's a better reason for all that they do, I've yet to hear it.

"You set a code to live by. I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."
February 26, 2009 10:52 pm #

like any regular military orginisation they are conditioned to obey any order given.

SF is what life is all about.
March 6, 2009 4:33 am #

i liked the new books about jacen solo.boba fett stole the show and seemd more like the old fett.

SF is what life is all about.
June 15, 2009 6:44 am #

I dont agree with the majority opinion. I believe that Traviss has the ability to show the soft side of an extreemly rough rock. I believe that as Boba Fett grows older and after a LIFETIME of the rough bounty hunter life, he should have the right to have a small emotional side. In reality, those who usually seem to be the most unemotional, usually are the MOST emotional inside. Basic psychology.
Although I dont like the idea of Boba Fett's thoughts being fllled with such emotion, I'd like to think that in the "Legacy of the Force" novels, the excuse for this is that he's just getting old.......
Karen Traviss is a fantastic writer in my opinion, yet it IS tricky when your CREATING the future for millions of fan's favorite charecter............god.....that must be a lot of pressure...

TW

{MW} [color=#FF0000]"Death and Destruction to our Enemies!"[/color]
[color=blue]Listen to My Rap Songs!![/color] [url=http://www.myspace.com/dinonkeys]www.myspace.com/dinonkeys[/url]
June 15, 2009 8:46 am (Edited June 15, 2009 08:46 am) #
Ralin Drakus wrote:
Mandal_ShadowWarrior wrote:

So its not like the Clone Troopers are permanetly brainwashed or anything, they'er just prone to being docial to whoever happens to be holding the leash.

I have to disagree.  If this was true, Order 66 wouldn't have been nearly as sucessful because too many of the clone specialists who's job it was to one day stand side by side with their Jedi, and the next day wipe them out would have been turned by their generals.  You see in Ep. III that Obi-Wan has a fairly close relationship with his top clone commander *was it Cody?  I forget...*, yet the clone coldly orders his men to fire on Obi-wan, and they blindly obey. 

I'm not sure what the canon explanation is on the early clone mental conditioning *or if there even is one*, but I've always been of the opinion that they were imprinted mentally with a bound devotion to their Emperor.  This my be a more simplistic way of explaining their actions, but it does the job.  If there's a better reason for all that they do, I've yet to hear it.

They did have these close relationships with their Jedi generals, but those relationships died once the Clones realized that the Jedi had all betrayed the Republic, when Mace Windu tryed to assassinate Palpatine. You have to understand that this was somthing that they had been fighting for for 3 years. The shock of the sudden realization that the Jedi had been  ploting to sieze control of the Republic for themelves, must of just completly destroyed any of the respect that the Jedi had earned over the course of the war.


So thats my counter-arguement to that.

[i]"Sir, Finishing this Cake."[/i]
June 16, 2009 4:08 am #

A very valid point

However, I'm not sure I can totally buy into it myself.  Admittedly, STARWARS has taken MUCH more far out explanations for some actions, so I guess that works, but it doesn’t satisfy my picky nature.    :P

EXAMPLE:  You work days, months, YEARS side by side with a person.  They’re cocky and a little distant, but they have skillz you’d KILL to have, they’ve used them at EVERY turn to save your shebs and the lives of your brothers, and has done UNBELIEVABLE things in the war to protect the Republic you were CREATED to protect.

Does anybody here think that, withought the blink of an eye, that you’d take the word of some dude you’ve only heard about before that said leader is now the bad guy and you should blow his head off – no questions asked.

We ALL saw Ep. III.  KT and maybe some other authors might add some RARE instances of hesitation or even desertion over the order, but all indications are that the vast majority of clones didn’t hesitate, didn’t question, nor did then even feel a doubt over the order.

Maybe it’s just me, but I feel a human in full possession of his senses couldn’t make such a choice that quickly.

"You set a code to live by. I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."
June 16, 2009 8:00 am #

mental conditioning and brainwashing
plus they were trained from the beginning that jedi were bad, but that they knew their stuff in battle

when the order was given out, the clones carried it out without question
makes perfect sense
it's like a mental override

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."
June 16, 2009 4:29 pm #

Is that canon about basic grunt clones being trained that the Jedi were 'bad'?  We know from KT that a good number of the commandos who were trained by Mandalorian instructors probably had a negitive view of the Jedi, and we can assume the ARCs were even more bias because of Jango.  But I'd never heard that basic clones were taught this from the Kaminoans.  Source?

And I think you're touching on my argument - early brain tampering/brain conditioning.  My argument is that they weren't in full control of their senses as KT seems to argue.  Obaying an order like that withing question, even by clone commanders who had a personal relationship with their Jedi, is the point I'm using to document this

"You set a code to live by. I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."
June 16, 2009 4:33 pm #

i don't read her Legacy of the Force books because i'm afraid the'll tant the pure awesomeness of Boba Fett with all her mushy gunk! but i do like her commando books..:P

,,Ca'nara ne gotal'u mirjahaal
shi gotal'u haastal,,
June 16, 2009 4:51 pm #

Well, that's been one of the few points I've agreed with KT on.  I've always been sure that, somewhere under that green beskar'gam shell, he Does have a soft side.

However, I'm becomeing a bit unhappy with her writing as I go, so I won't agree with any direction she goes until I've actually read it for myself.

"You set a code to live by. I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."
June 16, 2009 11:10 pm #

in order 66 she says that alot of the newer batch where cloned on corruscant.the clones where developing a a strong dislike for the republic and jedi who made them to be slave soldiers.most jedi saw them as cannon fodder.so order 66 would not be one to upset them.also the kaminos said something about them being alterd to be more obediant.

SF is what life is all about.
June 17, 2009 12:51 pm #
netracinya wrote:

i don't read her Legacy of the Force books because i'm afraid the'll tant the pure awesomeness of Boba Fett with all her mushy gunk! but i do like her commando books..:P

imo
anyone who claims to be a fan of boba fett would be impressed with what he becomes with his age
to put it plainly, you'd be proud of him

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."
June 22, 2009 8:28 am #

I agree with that Mccoy :)

Church... when I die I want you to have my orange juice!
June 22, 2009 6:02 pm #
Jaerog wrote:

I agree with that Mccoy :)

I second that, what he becomes with age is important. To be his fan, you need to be his fan at
every stage of his life.

A man's worst enemy can't wish on him what he can think up himself. Yiddish saying
June 22, 2009 6:25 pm #
BFFC therealmccoy wrote:
netracinya wrote:

i don't read her Legacy of the Force books because i'm afraid the'll tant the pure awesomeness of Boba Fett with all her mushy gunk! but i do like her commando books..:P

imo
anyone who claims to be a fan of boba fett would be impressed with what he becomes with his age
to put it plainly, you'd be proud of him

i am to a Fett fan,, i just don't like those books,, gosh

,,Ca'nara ne gotal'u mirjahaal
shi gotal'u haastal,,
June 22, 2009 7:12 pm #

tbh i didnt read any chapters in 'bloodlines' that didnt have boba fett in them lol
i skimmed through the rest
granted, i read sacrifice, invincible and revelations front to back

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."
June 25, 2009 2:21 pm #
Sharra Fett wrote:
Jaerog wrote:

I agree with that Mccoy :)

I second that, what he becomes with age is important. To be his fan, you need to be his fan at
every stage of his life.

Not sure I agree with the second half of that one.

To be a character's fan, yes, it is typical that you will closely follow all stages of that character's life and experiences.  However, you may not be a fan of a direction that character goes, or perhaps better said you don't Have to be happy with the way every author portrays a character.

For example:  I consider myself a Very big fan of the Mandalorians.  However, I don't Have to like the way KT writes about them just because I fell in love with them playing KotOR and reading the KotOR comics.  And in the same way, Boba fans don't Have to be a fan of his through every stage of his life; especially since each of these stages has been written about and portrayed differently by several different authors. 

Hell, I think that makes you More of a fan if you stand up for your guy and complain when he/she has been written about in a way you disagree with - if you Weren't a fan you wouldn't care

"You set a code to live by. I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."
June 25, 2009 3:45 pm #

The point is, for better or for worse, that is now what Boba Fett and the Mandalorians are. We can't just say "well I don't follow that aspect of it", cuz I mean, that's what happened. We don't get to choose or decide how they turn out, we are simply along for the ride.

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."
June 25, 2009 8:39 pm #

See i have full and beyond respect for creating a full Mandalorian culture. Oddly enough it speaks to me in a way that my RL "culture". I haven't got to the Legacy series yet. I read so much SW and they just keep coming out with more its so hard to catch up. ( i found my love of the books late into my fandom.... only about 2004/5 maybe..... )

Meat is murder...... tasty tasty murder.
"Suggestion: Electrocution works well. Evisceration and Decapitation are also effective, or um, so I've heard."
June 26, 2009 9:46 am (Edited June 26, 2009 10:19 am) #
Sharra Fett wrote:

I second that, what he becomes with age is important. To be his fan, you need to be his fan at every stage of his life.

BFFC therealmccoy wrote:

The point is, for better or for worse, that is now what Boba Fett and the Mandalorians are. We can't just say "well I don't follow that aspect of it", cuz I mean, that's what happened. We don't get to choose or decide how they turn out, we are simply along for the ride.

I don't think it has to be that static. To consider yourself fan of something, I don't think you have to blindly worship everything they do.

Think of what happens when a music band hires a different frontman or musician. Think of what happens when a movie series, or a videogame series, has a sequel written by a whole different team.

Sometimes new/different can be very good, or even seen as "better", think of Heath Ledger's Joker. But sometimes when things take a too drastically different direction on certain key aspects, you'll have people who just won't follow. Even if it's "the way things are" at some point, it doesn't mean the ones who were fans before all have to follow it.

And if you refuse to follow a particular leaning things took, it doesn't invalidate you as fan either. As what you once were fan of, still exists in the timeframe where it was what you loved and could identify yourself to. Even if it's not anymore the present time's reality, it doesn't mean it has no value.

When too many former fans give up that way, sometimes it can be enough for creators to reevaluate and get back to something more in the line of what worked better. And that can make the whole difference between what will or won't pass the test of time.

Just my opinion.

[url=http://www.lithdesigns.com]LD[/url] / [email=billielith@hotmail.com]E-[/email]
June 26, 2009 1:41 pm #

like KT or not, that's what Mandalorians are, and what they are going to be. Boba Fett is no longer the lone gunman BH silent type, he is the leader of a very large group of people. He may suck at it sometimes, but they are beginning to trust him. He is becoming everything that Jango and Jaster ever wanted to be, a true Mandalore.
After a 50+ year career as one of the galaxy's most infamous bounty hunters, you cannot possibly expect a man to stay the same as when he was 30.

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."
June 30, 2009 4:58 pm #

Thats a good way to put it, Peaple become more wise with age and as time passes Boba will learn and become a stronger leader Like Jango and Jaster before him.

Church... when I die I want you to have my orange juice!
July 5, 2009 7:52 pm (Edited July 5, 2009 07:53 pm) #

Just to add some food for thought, here's the LINK to what I've been able to copy so far from KT's article in StarWarsInsider #86.  I feel the article gives the clearest, most direct look at where KT is coming from and her idea of who and what a Mandalorian is.  It gives a fairly clear format of her exact interpretation of Mandalorian society, and gives a better understanding of why she writes the things she does reguarding the Mandalorians and our favorite bounty hunter.

"You set a code to live by. I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."
July 5, 2009 8:58 pm #

Basically I guess I'm just very tired of all of the KT hate going around, and the Troy Denning hate for that matter. It's like when people bash on George Lucas for the prequel trilogy. Seriously, get over it. In the harsh reality, whether or not we, the peon fans, like or dislike something, it remains the same.

Boba Fett watched his father die in front of him, grew up, became a bounty hunter, got married, became a father, left his wife and child, hunted Han Solo, fell into the Sarlacc, escaped the Sarlacc, hunted Han Solo some more, let Han Solo go, met up with Fenn Shysa, killed Fenn Shysa out of mercy, became Mandalore, helped the Republic win the war against the Yuuzhan Vong, found out he was going to die, called the Mandalorians together, found out he has a granddaughter, trained Jaina Solo to kill her brother, found out his wife was encased in carbonite, found out he wasn't going to die anymore, told his brain-damaged wife the truth, and fought along side Daala and the Imperial Remnant while they assisted the Republic against Darth Caedus while the moffs poisoned his planet with a chemical weapon that only targeted people with the Fett-genes.

That long run-on sentence, while missing some parts, is basically what Boba Fett is. While we are all free to have our opinions on the matter, nothing we do or say is going to change it, so I figure we might as well try and understand and appreciate what we have.

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."
July 5, 2009 11:33 pm #

Most impressive.  Boba Fett in a nut shell. 

And just because it's reality doesn't mean we can't complain about it.  Take the American Presidency for example.  Even though he won some people will still complain. 

Aha.  And once reading over McCoy's post again I realize he already said that.  I may as well add something.  Some people have grown up idolizing this character for his mysterious traits and don't appreciate when people try to change it.  And even though I did admire that mysterious Boba when I first saw him, in coming from a younger generation, I am less stuck to the idea of that enigmatic Boba Fett. 

I really do appreciate what Karen Traviss has done.  She took the Mandalorian culture and made something out of it and now it has exploded into an entire subsection of fans.  There would be a gap in my Star Wars fandom if she had not taken the step and written some of her material.

[i]Like I told your captain, the orphange attacked me. It was self-defense.[/i] -Richard the Warlock [url]http://archive.lfgcomic.com/lfg0002.gif[/url]
July 6, 2009 2:11 am (Edited July 6, 2009 06:55 am) #
BFFC therealmccoy wrote:

Basically I guess I'm just very tired of all of the KT hate going around, and the Troy Denning hate for that matter. It's like when people bash on George Lucas for the prequel trilogy. Seriously, get over it. In the harsh reality, whether or not we, the peon fans, like or dislike something, it remains the same........While we are all free to have our opinions on the matter, nothing we do or say is going to change it, so I figure we might as well try and understand and appreciate what we have.

Ok, I don't want to twist what you're trying to say, but I honestly have to look at your post and come away with the feeling that you're telling everybody to 'shut the hell up...I like the new Boba, and that's good enough for me.  All the rest of you can shove it.'  I'm fairly sure that's not your real intention, but that's very easily how your post could be read, and that's almost your tone. 

I don't see where the problem is that you have with dissent with KT.  If you are a fan of the new era Boba and/or the Mandalorians, more power to you.  And I not only support your freedom to back up your opionion with supporting facts, ideas, and personal leanings on the subject but enjoy countering them with my own.  I'm sorry if you don't agree, and wish you wouldn't take it so personally that others are not as happy with the newer 'unmaksed' version of the Mando'ade as you are.  I personally AGREE that Boba probably had a soft side of some sort under that armored surface, BUT I totally respect other's opionion that he doesn't have to have a soft gooy core, nor do I agree that EVERYBODY softens with age.

We all have a different opinion on this subject, and it's made that much more touchy on this forum considering who our favorite bounty hunter is and what his roots are.  I refuse to be told that I HAVE to like what he's become, what his people have become, and where they are going.  As I said, I not only understand but support your freedom to like, love, or hate anything written about Anybody; I just hope you'll give the rest of us the same leeway

"You set a code to live by. I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."
July 6, 2009 6:53 am #
Ralin Drakus wrote:

I don't see where the problem is that you have with dissent with KT.

My point is, basically, where does the above get you?

We can all stomp our feet and claim to the heavens that we hate Jar Jar Binks, but it will never change Episode I. Therefore we might as well try and understand who and why he is as a character in a saga that is ever changing in front of us.


PS. let it be known that good god I hate Jar Jar Binks lol

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."
July 6, 2009 7:05 am #
BFFC therealmccoy wrote:

PS. let it be known that good god I hate Jar Jar Binks lol

lolz, good to know   :P

As to the 'point,' Star Wars is one of the most fan-driven enterprises on earth.  Our opinion does, if made loud enough, count for something.  Especially in our case as Fett/Mando fans.  Does anybody really think that KT would have a Lucas contract writing about Mando-taught clones, that Jango would have had a serious role in the prequels, or that Boba Fett would be one of the most marketed characters in every sales promotion related to Star Wars if it wasn't for the cult-like following we FettFans have created all on our own?

OR, just as importantly, Star Wars is big enough for any and all ideas reguarding pretty much anything!  Like I'm doing: I personally no longer care for the KT driven Mandalorian society, so I therefore have switched my focus on a different timeline of Mando history *in my case the Crusaders of the KotOR era* and I devote my energies to creating the Mandos of my dreams there.

Don't let yourself be silenced by the odds of something changing.  Let your voice be heard if you have a problem, and if there is a large base of support that agrees with you, who knows what might happen?  And if not, you gave it an effort, and you can explore a little deeper in the awesome universe that is Star Wars until you find that perfect nitch that you can call your own.

That's my motivation

"You set a code to live by. I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."
July 6, 2009 11:28 am #

Viva la revolution!  >.>

Man I feel inspired to go stage a government coup or something.

No but seriously I agree with Ralin in that it was the fascination of Fett by the fans which instigated KT to go and write up on our favourite culture.  I think there was an event in DC where the fans whined enough about one Robin Batman had and the writers put it up to a vote and the fans voted him dead.

[i]Like I told your captain, the orphange attacked me. It was self-defense.[/i] -Richard the Warlock [url]http://archive.lfgcomic.com/lfg0002.gif[/url]
July 6, 2009 12:58 pm #

lol. There's been like 4 or 5 Robins so far, and 3 of them have died (Killing Joke was one of the best comics ever).

Anyways, I am more proud than anything that we have a community to debate topics just like this. This isn't your standard "OMG Boba Fett could totally pwn Darth Vader" thread, this is the result of a very well voiced and opinionated group of Fett freaks.

Hats off to you Ralin :D

As for standing up for your favorite version of Fett, I absolutely respect that. I know people *cough* Aaron *cough* that haven't even read the Legacy of The Force books (hehe). Some people are just the movie Fett, others from the Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy. Whatever your Fett fancy, this is the place to be no doubt.

Having said that, if you don't like KT, good luck with your protest ;) hehe
I'll be over here enjoying old Mandalore Boba Fett with his helmet off, let me know how it works out for you
lol, in all seriousness, you never know what is coming next now that Fett can't go on planet Mandalore anymore, and we have a new Fett book in the works. Something could change or happen again that makes it all come together and make sense in a way we all enjoy.

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."
July 6, 2009 6:02 pm #

Hey, I'm just trying make the point that there is room for debate on this as well as most any issue regarding our Fettish, and that there is a point and purpose to letting our opinions be heard. 

Glad if my 'revolutionary indoctrination' there was a success    :P

And I'll have to number myself with Aaron on not having read any of the Legacy books yet.  I'm more of a fan of the films, the Han Solo Trilogy, and Bounty Hunter Wars Boba fan.  I'm also the wanna-be writer, so I've tried to augment what I know as much as possible through source material and bios, though I know that's a poor substitute for actually reading the material *which I hope to do someday.* 

And on a final note, just to make it clear what my own personal beef with KT is, I've never been one to complain about the new Boba.  I've very specifically avoided any judgments on KT's version of him for the glaring reason that I don't know what her version is.  I've heard a lot of the complaints, but I've actually felt a connection to what I've heard about him as Karen seems to have taken down a road I myself wanted to do in my own FanFiction that I was working on.  My primary concern is the Commando books.  I have a huge amount of respect for her: she created the Mando'a language, AND she gave me a huge boost of confidence in my own creative ability when I learned later that she and I had come to very similar conclusions about the Mandalorian training sergeant’s influence on the clones - she didn't take Jango's intentions nearly as far as I did, but I still felt good that I had some very similar concept ideas as a published author. 

My only real bone to pick with her is that #1, I'm not a huge fan of her style and the motivations she's given the characters in the Commando books.  Up to the point I've read so far, she has in my opinion failed to write for multiple characters.  She is instead basically writing a 'Save The Clone's' propaganda piece without any other real drive or motivation for anybody else.  Every main character she's written perspective through *other then the Mando villain in Hard Contact, and with a little time I have no doubt he would have fallen into line as well had he survived* has turned to mush on the subject.  Not that I'm saying that it's not a worthy cause in the least, and were I my Mando character I don't know that I wouldn't agree.  HOWEVER, this is not why I bought a story about Republic Commandos, nor do I find it believable that the EVERYBODY she's writing for would come to the Exact same conclusions so quickly.  This is, I think, a flaw in her writing style.  I find that a great deal of the time she 'tells rather then shows,' a grave error in the writing business.  Hard Contact was a Great book!  But since then she doesn't seem to want to try as hard to show us her character's 'true colors' with actions, instead just telling us that they usually act one way, and then letting them contradict this supposed Bad@$$-cold killer persona that she tells us they have to give them a nice cuddly feel all through the book.  I find it all very contradictory and unbelievable

And Second, I dislike that she’s taking a culture that was kept alive by a huge fanbase of people and molding it to fit her own personal tastes with little to no input by the people that are paying her bills.  I agree with Sev, she has done some great things with the Mando’ade: she gave us a language, she’s brought the Mandalorian culture higher and exposed it to a newer multitude of fans who otherwise might never have known about it.  However, I personally feel that she’s taking swings at the culture that are far too encompassing.  As a writer, I understand that you need to create backstory, history, and roots for your characters, and in this case since there was so little canon material for the Mandalorians she had to create it herself.  But I feel that she went overkill and is, purposely or not, drowning any hope of anyone besides her influencing the Mandalorian culture and what it is.  She didn’t create the Mandalorians.  She wasn’t the first to write about them.  And she was certainly not the only voice in keeping the Mandalorian culture in existence up to this point.  Yet she has taken it upon herself alone to not only create a intricately detailed and mapped out society, but also destroy almost any hope of injecting any other ideas or hopes for what he hoped the Mandalorians should have been or what they might be.

I feel that this is a tragic moment for those fans like myself who wanted to be part of creating the culture that has been a huge piece of our lives for so long.

"You set a code to live by. I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."
July 6, 2009 7:08 pm #

read the books Ralin, you just might like them. Hell i skimmed through the first 2 with Fett (there's only 4) and smiled the entire time.

The part us said about her not taking tips form the people 'paying her bills' is just flat out incorrect. KT is heavily influenced by the fans. She maintains and responds frequently to questions and discussions on her star wars.com blog. She has also been heavily involved in several different costuming and mandalorian fan organizations and members thereof in developing the language, culture, weapons, etc. See my article on Novall Talon and Ram Zerimar if you don't believe me. She made Mandalorian culture for us, not herself. She certainly didn't just say she's the only one who can write about them either, because the last book in LOTF featuring Mandos was written by Troy Denning.

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."
July 7, 2009 1:08 am #
BFFC therealmccoy wrote:

read the books Ralin, you just might like them. Hell i skimmed through the first 2 with Fett (there's only 4) and smiled the entire time

I did buy Bloodlines just for the Boba cover...lolz.  I had to do it, that pic is my old Av   :P   Tried to do the 'skim over just the Boba parts' as you did, but found myself too lost in an era that's just way too far in the future from what I'm familiar with.  But I will get caught up on it all at some point

About KT, I just have to be skeptical of just who it is she's listening to and how open she is to all sides of the fanbase.  Not that I doubt your word in any way - and I admit that I've never frequented her website or blog very much simply because as the wanna-be writer that I am I prefer my own ideas and ventures, though I have checked out both a few times to get links to her Mando'a translations etc.  But as you've also said, there is a LOT of KT hating and whining from the fans Because she hasn't taken the direction many if not most of the oldschool fans wanted to see.  Maybe she made the tactical decision that she couldn't make everybody happy, so it was better to pander to the newer generation readers at the expense of the original fans *who are the ones you most hear that are butt-hurt over most everything KT does.*  And that is true, you Can't make everybody happy.  I just feel that there was more of a middle ground that she could have explored that wouldn't have drawn such a line in the sand. 

Also, I never meant to say that She said she was the only one who could write about the Mandalorians.  I was trying to say that she has, in her fairly brief time as the primary writer for Boba and the Mando'ade, created such an elaborate and detailed history for the Mandalorians of the recent generations that it's almost impossible for anybody else to even try to add anything to their history and culture - all new writers are forced to view them as she does because she's made such an elaborate and now canon group of people. 

I guess the argument could be made that this is a good thing - her culture is far from being All that I would have liked to see, but in the long run it could have been a lot worse, and she has prevented some doosh from really screwing it up.... who knows?

"You set a code to live by. I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted...I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other men, and I require the same from them."
August 5, 2009 12:41 pm #

I think Karren Travis is great... She is really nice to her fans and writes the best SW books without competition... Though... I have to say I didnt read all SW books, but I have a hard time beliving there is someone better then her...

Ante Gotovina is a knight of valor in the dungeon of lies.
August 5, 2009 1:37 pm #

I think it's unfair and maybe even incorrect to say that she chose to write for a new generation of fans. Just because it appears like older 'fans' are disgruntled doesn't mean that she wrote it for younger fans.

That is all just happenstance and bias. Most people who enjoy her books might not even go to the forums to preach about it, seems that we only hear all the complaining because those are the whiners that take time out of their nerdy day of playing WoW to cry on the forums about how they could write Boba so much kewler than she could lol

not really fair to say that about people who disagree with her either tho is it? no

We can't really take a poll about who dislikes and likes Karen Traviss, because there is always going to be that heavier end of people that hate everything that flock to the internet to complain about it. People who don't hate everything tend to not dwell on it and go about their day.

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."
August 5, 2009 8:22 pm #

One doesn't need to isolate ones self to come up with original ideas. The true artist/writer/creator takes all that is around them and interpenetrate what they hear or see and blends them with whatever on earth is going on in their heads at the time and creates something new. How about artist colonies? Or the salon's of yore? It's always about feeding off of each other, nuturing the creative energies. Not that the only way to create is when involved in a group, but its one way.

Just because you want to write RD doesn't mean you HAVE to avoid KT's work just so you can come up with your own ideas. Maybe something she said will spark an even greater idea in your head, or clarify one you already had. I was taught in art school to look at work of the past, see what people have done before. Use what you like and don't like to hone your own personal style and point of view.

Oh, and just because some one HASN'T read the Legacy series, doesn't make them less of a fan. There are a lot of SW books out there, and if you throw in working, surviving, occasionally sleeping, and costuming, it is easy to not get to reading a few books.  I would love to get to Legacy, but there are only so many hours in the day. ( AND they keep releasing NEW books for me to lust after....) Doesn't make me less of a Fett Fan, SW Fan, or even a Fan of KT.

This is why the boards are so nice. I happen to fully disagree with McCoy and RD. I really LOVE the Commando series, and her whole writing style. Yes i know i haven't ready Legacy, but i have read more than my fair share of other SW books. Some are just poorly written in my opinion. Others try WAY too hard to sound smart (reference the Coruscant Nights series [there are 3], they have pretentious vocabulary) I personally can't stand Kevin J. Anderson's style. Barbara Hambly's mediocre at best. Zahn always comes up with a solid well written work. Traviss, just is smooth and I RARELY get that emotionally involved with characters, maybe even people in real life. It's funny because I think there are  a lot of relatable situations and character's in the Republic Commando books, even though its still set in that galaxy far far away.

The thing is everyone has their own idea of what it means to be Mandalorian. Each of us brings a different part to it. And that I think is part of what KT has made it out to be. So even as we disagree, we are Mandalorian. And there are some things that will always be the same, whether one is for KT's thoughts on Mandalorians or a different view point. Obi Wan Kenobi agrees that things can be one thing and  another thing at the same time. It all depends on that "certain point of view".

Ours is the same. Fett is good, Mandalorians are killer.

Meat is murder...... tasty tasty murder.
"Suggestion: Electrocution works well. Evisceration and Decapitation are also effective, or um, so I've heard."
August 6, 2009 7:55 pm #
Croatian Pride wrote:

I think Karren Travis is great... She is really nice to her fans and writes the best SW books without competition... Though... I have to say I didnt read all SW books, but I have a hard time beliving there is someone better then her...

Please tell me you at least know who Timothy Zahn and Kevin J. Anderson are right? As for this whole new Boba spiel, I don't read KT books because I don't have time to and now there's probably too many to get caught up to. I'm more of a movie/Han Solo/BHW/Dark Forces Boba fan.

August 6, 2009 8:58 pm #

There are never too many books to "get caught up on". Just read what you want when you have time. I haven't read Legacy or all of NJO yet, but that doesn't mean i never will.

Just because you've read someones work, Like Anderson's  doesn't mean that I have to like him. He's not my favorite.

Meat is murder...... tasty tasty murder.
"Suggestion: Electrocution works well. Evisceration and Decapitation are also effective, or um, so I've heard."
August 6, 2009 11:28 pm #

all of those listed are amazing lucasbooks writers

and also, si tritan, theres always audio books :) time savers in traffic!

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."
August 7, 2009 2:08 am #

"Please tell me you at least know who Timothy Zahn and Kevin J. Anderson are right? As for this whole new Boba spiel, I don't read KT books because I don't have time to and now there's probably too many to get caught up to. I'm more of a movie/Han Solo/BHW/Dark Forces Boba fan."

Sure... They are great... But I like Travis better...

Ante Gotovina is a knight of valor in the dungeon of lies.
August 9, 2009 6:17 am #

I was just reading on Facebook that Karen Traviss announced she wasn't doing any more Star Wars books after Imperial Commando #2 because of continuity issues with things in the second season of Clone Wars.  SAY IT ISN'T SO!!!!

http://karentraviss.typepad.com/blog/2009/08/end-of-one-era-start-of-another.html


Anyone know any details of what she's talking about?  I can only assume it has something to do with the Mandalorians and Boba being in season 2 of the Clone Wars.  I hope we're not going to need another RetCon on the history of the Mandalorians or even the Fett man, himself.  Especially since he's supposed to be a character in the new Star Wars live action TV show.  Cross your fingers.

--Sadriel Fett (BFFC Moderator)
"I'm just a simple Fan, trying to make my way in the universe."
August 9, 2009 12:05 pm #

rather than clean up the canon that lucasarts is throwing a big wrench in with their season 2 of clone wars (you know, that show that does whatever the hell it wants and adds new & useless characters for no reason), KT decided she'd just bow out

I would too if someone crapped all over a dozen books I wrote for their universe

"Those with the ability to lead, have the responsibility to do so."
August 9, 2009 4:24 pm (Edited August 9, 2009 04:27 pm) #
Sadriel_Fett wrote:

I was just reading on Facebook that Karen Traviss announced she wasn't doing any more Star Wars books after Imperial Commando #2 because of continuity issues with things in the second season of Clone Wars.  SAY IT ISN'T SO!!!!

http://karentraviss.typepad.com/blog/2009/08/end-of-one-era-start-of-another.html


Anyone know any details of what she's talking about?  I can only assume it has something to do with the Mandalorians and Boba being in season 2 of the Clone Wars.  I hope we're not going to need another RetCon on the history of the Mandalorians or even the Fett man, himself.  Especially since he's supposed to be a character in the new Star Wars live action TV show.  Cross your fingers.

Here's another article on that:

http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/story/Karen_Traviss_Bids_Farewell_To_SW_Novels_125555.asp

So don't worry haters. You dont have to read her anymore. I for one think she's made invaluable contributions to Mandalorian canon. Bloodlines is one of my favorite SW novels of all time and finding this article really upset me.

August 9, 2009 6:06 pm #

Sadly Bats lives in a little town tucked away in the Coast and I've never seen these Books
The Writer seems to have a Love and Hate with the Fans,,Boba having a soft touch I can't
really see that in him ...with my Tattoo I have the saying ''I Serve No One'' isn't that
the real Boba Fett,,my thinking with his Dad he just wanted someone to do the dirty work
for him ,as Jango to me was a selfish Man and Boba did love him or should I say loyal to
him Jango really didn't care for Boba.
    Bats

August 10, 2009 4:08 pm #

Oh, thank God! KT is going away! :) HURRAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Though I must admit Clone Wars does kinda suck. Just like I said it would. Didn't I say this would happen? I did, didn't I. No one listened to me. But I was right, wasn't I? TV, so freely accessible. So much easier than reading. The new generation of fans will grow up stupid cause they'll see that and think it's canon when it's not. I felt sick when I heard Boba was going to be in it. He is, isn't he? I don't even want to know what horrible thing they do to him. The villain who always loses and comes back in the next one with some grand scheme that's foiled by the Super-Jedi. Well I hope you're all happy. You got what you wanted, and what I, and only one or two others, predicted.

Reality doesn't care if you believe in it.
[url]http://www.townparkradio.com[/url] - Video Game Remix Music

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