Topic: Minors serving!?

I don't know if this goes here but I couldn't find a better place.

I live in Tokyo.

I live behind a liquor store. I drink red wine....a lot.

In Japan minors can work at liquor stores even though they can't drink themselves.

Hell! they sell alcohol in vending machines here, no fooling. And most beer here is 5%.

I'm not talking about eating establishments, I mean full-on liquor stores.  It has always seemed odd to me that in the US you can vote for the leader of the free world, you can go to war and kill and or die for your country, but you can't have a drink? My moral position has been somewhat loosened over the ten years that I have lived away from the US but I am wondering how others feel about this.

Any comments, questions, funny stories?

Hah, yeah, I know all about the vending machines. Theres a pretty funny blog of a guy who lives in Kyoto and used to teach middle school kids English. If you're interisted I'll give you a link.

I'm frusterated beyond belief right now to tell the truth. I will (technically) be 21 on March 1st (not my real birthday, but I don't have one this year so....), so it drives me nuts I'm just not there yet. ESPECIALLY since Wheel of Fortune is doing show try outs the week before! I'm lame I know, but I really like that show a lot. And I'm pretty good to boot. The only one probably better then my in my family is my dad. Yet I have to wait at least another year before I can even try out!

My mom won't even let me drink beer on my birthday. Augh!! >_<

I'm all in for bashing the drinking age, not like most high school kids from 15 -18 don't do it anyway, so what's the point really? It's really not doing much to stop it, what with all the gandi-marts you can just hit up, it just means kids have to get out or go to a party, when maybe all they wanted to do was knock a few back with their friends at home. In some ways the laws just make it more dangerous, getting people out of the house where drunk driving can become a problem, making it seem more cool and risky and thusly much more appealing, or maybe even making kids get fake ID's and getting floored in a liquor store robbery like McLovin, you just can't know anymore.

Drinking should just be banned entirely, actually. It destroys families, lives, and people. If everything around you is so awful that you have to drink, then maybe you have to reconsider your life. It turns people into something else. It makes them do horrible things, things they would never even consider doing otherwise. What if an emergency happens while you're drunk? And you stand there and laugh at it cause it's funny, when if you were normal you'd never even have had the emergency. What about holidays? Especially if you have kids. What kind of message does that send them that daddy has to drink to make it through spending a day with them, a day where you're supposed to be with your family and have good clean fun with them? What about the taste factor? I've never tasted beer itself, the smell starts me gagging before I get that close. So how do you get started drinking it then? Plug your nose till your taste buds die? Wine's even worse! I've actually thrown up before just from the smell. I had a tiny sip before (holding my nose), and it wasn't there a millisecond before I spat it up all over the place, the reaction was so immediate. People claim it's fun, or that it enhances fun things. What about good fun? Clean fun? The kind of fun you get from, say, sitting down and reading a good book? Or playing a video game? Or hanging out with friends? Must it involve making yourselves into lesser, more inhuman versions of yourselves? Me and my sister used to hang out all the time. It involved pizza, ice cream, music, games, and movies. We had so much fun, we were laughing and having the best time of our lives. All without drinking. It's really not hard to have fun without it. Oh, and then there's the health thing. What happens when your liver finally says, "**** you." and dies? Besides, what of the money wasted on it? 15.99 for a pack? Do you know what 16 dollars can get you? It can get you two, maybe three days, worth of meals. It could by you some action figures or other toys. It could get you a new keyboard for your computer. It could get you some sort of improvement for your house. Or you could save it and at the end of the year when you look at all the money you might have spent on alcohol you'll be surprised by how much money you have. Also I've heard it makes you depressed. Does anyone really need to be any more depressed? Do we really need any more suicides? What about drunk drivers? What about all the innocent people who have died because someone just had to go and drink. What about people who get drunk and wake up next to someone they don't know and don't remember? How is that good in any way? What about if you don't remember where you live and end up two towns over? What about the addictive factor? Cause it IS addictive. And I just feel sorry for those who are easily addicted to things who think they might want to have a drink. Or two. ...or maybe three. One more. Just one more. ...ok, I'll stop. No, just one more. ... What about the wife and/or kid/s that get beaten whenever he drinks? And people with kids who drink I don't even look at as being humans anymore, they're complete monsters, not only destroying themselves and their lives, but destroying their kids lives too. They don't deserve kids. Beautiful, pure, innocent, helpless, little children. It's like taking an angel and tainting it with the darkness of hell. Who knows, that poor little kid will probably, after a lifetime of seeing mommy and daddy doing it, will fall into that darkness completely. Especially if they see their friends doing it and their friends pressure them into doing it.

The age limit is there for a reason. On drinking, it should be a lot higher. On other things, I don't care so much. I mean, I understand the other things, because when I was 18 I was a complete idiot. Looking back on it, let's say there's something you can do at 21 that I wanted to do at 18. Now that I'm 22 I can go, "Wow, thank God that limit was there I would have done something that would have made everything awful." Not that there was, but I can see it from that perspective. It's to stop the stupid people from, well, doing something stupid. I don't think they should work at an actual liquor store, but I know that here at least you have to be 18 to sell it.

And I know there'll be some people who respond back to me and try to start an argument or discussion, but don't bother because I'm not coming back into this thread just to avoid that kind of thing. I can make great opening statements, but once I get into a discussion I'm hopeless. I can't keep anything straight inside my head and I word everything wrong. So, this is all I have to say and I'm out.

Hmm, I disagree entirely.

People underestimate the youth of society, thinking if they can drink they'll just all get plastered and get themselves and their friends killed. There are some like that, true, but I write that off as natural selection. If you've got good friends to have a good time with, then the chances of anything detrimental happening are very slim. One of my boys drove down the block once after having a couple drinks, and I beat the hell out of him. It's friendly moral support like that that keeps you safe.

Actually they did try to ban drinking,remember learning about Prohibition in history? Do we remember the outcome? I don't think it is the government's place to band something like that at all. Its the MISUSE of alcohol that is the problem. It is getting DRUNK, not the enjoyment of a cider or glass of wine with dinner with friends. Its the MOTIVES behind drinking. Some do drink to hide and run from their problems, no question that's not the right thing to do. Yes OVER drinking causes all sorts of harm to families, relationships and health. Its a choice. You don't have to like the taste of beer. Don't have to drink if you don't want to. I don't know where you buy your beer Miba, but 16 is WAY more than most 6 packs sell for around here. Red Wine is considered very healthy, in MODERATION. Drunk Driving IS UNFORGIVABLE. Driving drunk is wrong, very wrong. But taking away the legal right to drink will not necessarily make the roads safer. There will still be bad drivers that do foolish things as the drive. People will still drive when they are too tired to drive. Old people will still refuse to give up driving even though they shouldn't be on the road. Many things are addicting. It depends on the person honestly. I think that you are equating with drinking as the same as being and getting drunk.

I'm not trying to argue or anything, but I feel like i must provide a counter point to what you have said. I'm not trying to change your mind on anything, as it is your right to have those opinions.

I feel that the issues that the United States has with drinking stems a lot from the fact that we as a nation are not open about drinking. It is seen as taboo, a vice. When it can be enjoyed in moderation as another flavor and enjoyment in life. If we taught our children responsibility and respect for drinking, it would greatly cut back on drinking related problems. As it is now, we encourage bad drinking habits, because people will want what they can't have. That is why there are thieves in the world too.

I admit that I've always had issues with age limits in general. Age is NO standard for maturity and ability. I've been drinking since I was 17 or so. But I had my first drink years before that. I don't drink to get drunk. I drink because I like the taste, and wont drink something just because if its got alcohol in it but tastes bad to me. I personally like the taste of most beers, especially with some foods. Same goes for wine and other drinks.  I DO NOT drive if i've had more than a drink or two. I also refuse to drive if I have taken some of my stronger pain killers as I don't trust it to be safe for me and others on the road. Who determined that 21 was the right age to drink? Who decied that 18 you can choose members of the government. Who decied age of concent? It should all be based on the individual's maturity level. (if only this was something that they could enforce.) I know horrifically immature and irresponsible THIRTY year olds.  Age means NOTHING there.

i didn't drink till after highschool

I think the drinking age should maybe be lowerd to 16, but not entirely abolished, it would be weird to see 8 year olds buying booze.

I hate hearing dumb grade niners always bragging about how they get "super smashed", do some thing stupid and how they lipped off the cops. If there wasn't an age limit there would be an utter dumb ass epidemic. I just dont think 14 and under, Are quite matured enough for booze they're at that stage in there life where they think people will think that they are cool if they do stupid things. (No offence to any 14 yr olds on here, once you're a senior in highschool you might understand)

Well I also think it should be lowered to 18 cuz of the whole going to war and voting rights. Its going to happen anyways. For example: Today is my birthday, so, last night me and my buddies got 'super smashed' and went to a club. I am now 19 and very hung over. Totally worth it tho.

Highly motivating, I like how you roll.

Yes!!! Miba you are now my hero and my god!

Damn straight. A little liquid courage never hurt anyone.

Huzzah Dark Knight.  Probably from somewhere else as well but I only know of it from the Dark Knight.

Although I appreciate many of Miba's sentiments and do agree that alcohol can cause a lot of problems in life...I would also say that the way it functions in a society is largely culturally determined. By US standards well over half of the Japanese population would be considered clinically alcoholic. Alcohol is part of the culture here. I believe our European friends would agree that we make too much out of the issue in the states.

Another significant factor is our modes of transportation. Here in Japan, as in many places in Europe most people use some form of public transportation. This limits greatly the chances for accidents related to alcohol.

The last thing I would say is that, like war, sex, hate, sunrises, love and all the rest, alcohol has been part of human history for a long, long time. They drink a lot of alcohol in the Bible, read it, really, really read it before you jump on me about that statement.  People didn't have supermarkets and convenience stores in 300 b.c. and many people even made their own. Drinking wine and beer was normal. So again, as with other topics I am trying to take the middle road here. I don't see it as a bad thing or a good thing. It's just something that humans do and sometimes it gets ugly. But I bet there are just as many stupid things that were done while NOT under the influence of alcohol there were done while drunk. I do them all the time.

Sure, alcohol is bad for your health and addicting when you have too much of it. So is soda. And chocolate. And meat. And vegetables. See where I'm going with this? ALL of those things are bad for you if you have too much. Too much meat and not enough vegetables can make you sick and vice versa if it happens for too long. Eat a lot of candy and drink a ton of soda and you'll get fat. Yet everyday we have people who eat candy and drink sodas, and people who order steak, hold the vegetables, and people who have just a salad. And people who drink some alcohol. If we control ourselves, and not have a ton of soda and candy every day, order some veggies with that steak, and a bit of meat with that salad, and only one or two beers instead of ten, and it's Ok.

Right on! All things in moderation.

Which is something the Bible agrees on. It never condemns drinking, just not getting drunk. As you brought it up, I wanted to clarify that--it says several times drinking is bad, in moderation and as long as it won't be detrimental to someone else, ie, a person who had a drinking problem. Don't drink around them.

liquor in vending machines?

my sisters would die.

You can get anything in vending machines over there and I mean EVERYthing. Whereas over here basically the only thing you can get in vending machines are snacks and drinks.

I've seen batteries, porn (DVDs, sex toys, magazines etc.), ice-cream, cameras, gloves, umbrellas and as mentioned above all and any kind of liquor you would ever want, whisky, sake etc. Oh yeah, and cigarettes are everywhere.

You can buy schoolgirl's underwear in Japanese vending machines, no lie.

Hey man, if alcohol was so evil, Jesus wouldn't have made it poof from water right? Right.

^ Pssst, it's a joke, not turnin this into another god vs. evolution thread.

Ah the infamous panty vending machines. Supposibly they were pulled from vending machine circulation in the early 90's, but if that was the case, then you wouldn't hear reports of them from most tourists who find them...never mind INSTRUCTIONS to actually find them to see for yourself.

There are shops in the Akihabara district that sell complete uniforms for all sizes! From time-to-time you will see young males walking around in Sailor Moon getups on the streets of Akihabara. I think of all the places in Tokyo I like the least Akihabara tops the list. There are some mutants there, and I don't mean the cool X-Men type.

And bringing it back to topic...no place here checks I.D.s so it is really easy for minors to buy alcohol at convenience stores which sell it 24/7 or at bars and eating establishments. When I came here back in college for a visit I thought it was heaven.

....Up until this moment, I never really considered Japan a "MUST" place to visit. Until now. Of course even if I ever reached its shores by the time I did, I'd be well past legal in the US. D'oh!

"They say that the grass is greener...." but man I wish I was back home. I have lived here long enough. This is a great place to visit and even live for a year or two but it's almost ten years for me now.  I want some f...ing Taco Bell!

Pfft I never said I wanted to live there. Just a vacation. Of course, theres also the factor that for the life of me, I simply cannot learn a second language (not even the supposibly easy language Spanish....). So I'll be better off sticking with going to Hawaii someday.

No..you dont..

....indigestion. For i was once a die hard Taco Bell fan.

Man, you don't understand how sick and tired I am of eating healthy. I wouldn't want a diet of fast food as in "Super-size me" but Taco Bell would really, really hit the spot.

Actually, I can personally say that Japanese in easier to learn than Spanish. Trust me! I know some German, Romanian, Russian, and Japanese. I gave up on Spanish like four years ago.

Well, learning Spanish might not mean much to you, but I live in Mexican central, USA. Spanish is EVERYwhere. So it really is something I need to know for this part of the country. I actually do know a few words, but most of those come from when our family lived in Spain for several years. I could never actually string them into a coherent sentance. That was always the part in class that killed me, actually.

If you mean that grammar is easier in Japanese than Spanish then I might agree, but only to a certain extent.  As someone who has worked and lived in Japan for nine years and studied in college and who has a second level, number one is the highest, certification in Japanese, there is no other language more difficult to master in terms of reading and writing. I studies Chinese for three years, and Arabic for two years in school as well and I still think Japanese is harder to learn to read and write.

Japanese has two alphabets and over 10,000 Kanji (Chinese symbols) The symbols can have entirely different readings, pronunciation, depending on what other Kanji they are connected to or if the are standing alone. These phonetic symbols are used side-by-side with the Kanji in the same sentence.
For example:
&#12371;&#12398;&#36074;&#21839;&#12399;&#12392;&#12390;&#12418;&#38627;&#12375;&#12356;&#12435;&#12391;&#12377;&#12369;&#12393;&#12289;&#12377;&#12372;&#12367;&#38754;&#30333;&#12356;&#12290;(This is a very difficult but interesting question.)

I don't know if you will be able to see the above sentence but if you can it is clear that there are some simple symbols as well as some more complicated characters. To be fluent in reading French or Spanish all you need to know is the roman alphabet with a few accent marks and sound symbols. For Japanese you need to know as many as five or six ways of reading the same character

Also, Japanese has a completely different structure when spoken in formal and polite situations that does not exist in any other language except Korean.

The only thing I find easier about Japanese than say French, German or Spanish is that Japanese is not gender specific in terms of verb conjugates. Articles that are gender specific in Japanese do not exist either but article usage is much more complex and the grammar rules governing their use are really vague.

Well, I could tell in the above sentance that you used Hiragana and Kanji and really thats about all I can tell you.

I think its so hard for English speaking natives to learn other languages (and vice versa) is because in a way, our sentance formations are "reversed" for nearly every language out there. We grow up learning how to speak in a certain way, then when we learn a different language, have to throw all that out the window and, to us, form the sentances in reverse. Which was always the part that killed me.

There is a lot of heavy linguistic theory I could go into but the long and short of it is that language and culture are very closely connected. It effects not only the way we communicate but also the way we see and understand the world. So when you learn another language you also have to pick up elements of the culture to be an effective communicator.

There is a completely different dimension we could take the "evolution" thread in based on the languages spoken and written during the time the people in the Bible lived, during the time the Bible was written and as we interpret the Bible in the modern world...

mmmm....taco bell....

Oh yeah, I meant Japanese grammar. I could never dream of learning the 6,000 Kanji, let alone the other two main alphabets taught in Japan! Way to go T!

I just watch old Japanese samurai movies and pick up words from those. Specifically the Zatoichi series.

I could probably pick out bits and peices of Romanji but thats basically it. I don't have an especially big interist in learning Japanese. It'd be kinda interisting to go to Japan someday (its certainly safer then a lot of countries Americans vacation in), but I doubt I'll ever go. I'm more interisted in countries that are safe AND speak English. And don't totally hate Americans (yeah, right....). I reeeeeally wanna go to Hawaii though. So friggin expensive though.

Right now...South Carolina is the Promised Land...flowing with grits and sweet tea. LOL

My sister's BF, sometime this year to be her fiance, lives there and we have so many plans, it'll be better than even Japan! He's as close as a brother to me even though we haven't known each other that long.

GO TO THE PALMETTO STATE!!! LOL

well then... come home!  what stops you?

On a separate but related issue. The only place that I know of in the entire country of Japan that is non-smoking, as a policy, is Starbucks Coffee! One of the things I hate about living here the most is that there is basically no non-smoking sections at restaurants and bars. When they do have a "non-smoking" section it will be right next to the smoking section. I don't really care if people smoke at a bar, that's part of what people do there, but as a non-smoker I hate eating when someone is smoking! It is really amazing how many people smoke here in Japan. And as I mentioned above, cigarette vending machines are as easy to find as soda pop vending machines. Despite the many healthy things they do here they actually have begun to include many western vices into their daily lives.

Smoking is something I've sort of forgotten about living in this city. There aren't very many places left in public where you can smoke, actually. By law, all public places except for bars prohibit smoking. The last time I was in a place that smoked was in this bar-esque section of Dennys with my mom, and that was a few years ago. You can smoke outside of course, but, also by law, you have to be more then 20 feet away from a public doorway. So these days the only place I see people smoking is in the courtyard at the CC. Though because its stupid cold out (for here anyways. It SNOWED the other day!!) I don't see many people smoking at the moment. XD

I don't care whether or not people smoke. Yeah its bad for you and all, but I don't think its anyones business to tell you what to do. My parents smoked from years, but I don't. And I definitly didn't tell them to quit (although they did stop smoking a few years ago [for the most part. I know for a fact they sneak cigarettes!], but they still haven't stopped chewing the nicorette gum ^^; ). I always disliked it when they quit actually. Cecilia dislikes getting yelled at for no reason when the folks are grumpy without a nicotine fix. D=

Well I do believe that people have the right to smoke buuut that a person's right to smoke ends at my right not to get lung cancer. That's the only thing. I mean, I have bad habits too but, as far as I know, they don't invade on other people's space. I don't want to eat someone's exhaled smoke. I hate smelling like a giant walking cigarette after I go to a restaurant etc. Smoking impacts others in direct ways that other habits don't. And that's just it...people should have the right to smoke and people should have the right not to be effected by it! Here in Japan the smoker's rights issue is reversed and usually when you go out with a group of people if one person smokes then everybody gets to sit in the smoking section out of consideration for that person. There's a lot of cultural stuff going on here too but basically I think it's B.S. and I have pretty much stopped going out at all when I know that someone who smokes is joining. 
Japan is great! and it drives me crazy. Does anyone in the states, that lives somewhere warm, want to adopt a 38 year-old artist who has travelled the world, has a great sense of humor and great taste in music, clothes, wine and movies. Oh yeah, and speaks Japanese?  I also do windows.

Do you play air soft, LEGOs, Star Wars figures(of course you do), and do Civil War reenactments? If so, I might have an opening. If you don't mind 35 degree winters and 90 degree summers. Spring is nice though. If you like flash floods and tornadoes. And winter ice storms on a schedule like the ones in Arkansas. And droughts.

Eh its much nicer here. Summer heat can get up to 110 in the, well, summer, but in winter we average a daytime high of 60's and low 70's. We don't tornadoes (although there were a few withen a fairly close range of the city, but thats EXTREMELY rare) or ice storms. Snow on the valley floor is very uncommon. We spend almost the entire year dry though until the monsoon season. Then we get regular GASP rain. Too much rain and we get floods though. And too much lightning without the rain gets us fires. ^^;

yesterday is a good example of how alcohol is perceived here in Japan.
I was getting ready to ride the bullet train after a very depressing day of bad interviews for jobs that I don't really want and I bought my ticket and went through the electronic ticket gate. I took the escalator up to the platform to ride the train and there at the top of the escalator was a nice little Kiosk selling magazines, candy, airport-type novels,and yes, you guessed it, alcohol. So after having a terrible day I decided to medicate myself with a few cans of what they call Chu-hi. Chu-hi is basically fruit juice and vodka. So I took my Chu-hi, boarded the train, found my seat, sat down took a swig and started a new Boba Fett illustration while traveling across northern Tokyo at a million miles an hour.

But can you believe it? You cam eeben buy boooze on da train platform here.

This is the drawing I did, half way to tipsy, riding the bullet train
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21897699@N02/3294257111/

Come live with me! I need someone like you who can draw like that! You're awesome! The only tipsy part about that was how Boba was kind of leaning back. LOL

Be careful what you wish for...you might get it.

I may just show up at your door with my suitcase in one hand and my art supplies in the other!  :)

Yes Japanese is very hard for some to learn. I tried for all of 2 weeks in college last fall. It did not work well.

That drawing is better than i could do totally sober in a closed studio! Good work :)

Thank you Kindly for the compliment. This is my favorite illustration of Boba that I have ever done. Did this one without booze in the comfort of my home while watching 70s Super-friends cartoons.
http://www.bobafett.com/multimedia/galleries/displayimage.php?pos=-863

Well I think the drinking age should be lowered to 13, not just because I am 13.....ok maybe. But alcohol isn't  bad thing. A glass of red wine before you go to bed is supposed to be good for your blood pressure, although I think beer tastes much better than wine. And actually, my mom is always the funniest when she is drunk. Although she did get drunk and set my trampoline on fire with some fireworks last summer......

And that drawing is awesome, tachyon!

As for smoking, I hate it and I think it is the stupidest thing you could possily do to yourself besides commiting suicide....although smoking actually IS almost like commiting suicide....