Topic: Do you believe in God or evolution?

I like to study...ALOT. I'd heard it in a manuscript based off of the few details of land, and people estimated the most reasonable location.

Hey don't say anything about me. Karson isn't racest. He was just stating somthing!

Did you just refer to yourself in the third person Karson? 

But as Mandalore Hunter said, there is evidence that the Garden of Eden near the Tigris and the Euphrates which is Mesopotamia.  Modern day Iraq.  Again this is one of the many theories.

Yes He did :)

I also said people guessed the most logical place, Sev. And many theories become realities. There are several other hints, like God's flaming sword said to have closed off the Garden of Eden being a meteorite that Jews now consider holy and they worship God through it. Iv'e even seen pictures of it, and I would've thought it was a sword too at that point with it crashing down.

Funny thing is I was studing the Garden Of Eden a couple of weeks ago in class

I don't think thats odd at all. I've come across it before.

I always hear people saying that Creationism makes no sense and has no base in scientific fact.  This always amused me, considering the Theory of Evolution itself is just that....a theory.  As for not making any sense, I saw one of those funny homemade motivational posters the other day and it pretty much summed it all up.  It said, "THE BIG BANG THEORY"--In the beginning there was nothing...which exploded.    Um.....yeah.....

There are far too many older religious traditions for me to believe exclusively in a god that developed out of a cultural tradition covering a few hundred square miles in what we today call the Middle East. The Bible, as we have it today, is an edited, translated, re-edited,  collection of documents complied by humans over several hundred years. We owe a lot of modern christianity to the Councils of Nicea, (read a book), the fact that anyone can believe in either God or evolution without direct experience of either makes me suspicious of human psychology in general. Scientifically, the biggest problem with both positions is that you can't falsify either of them. You can't test, in a controlled experiment, God's existence. Likewise, evolution is a process, not an event. You can't see evolution happening, by definition, "change over time."

SO, my position is that I am going to have to be CONVINCED either way. Right now I am leaning toward evolution because we have a fossil record that supports some aspects of the theory, whereas, the Bible pretty much only supports itself.  But I feel it is foolish to completely discount the possibility of God, that's also unscientific.

First of all, that's not what the Big Bang Theory is. Secondly, evolution has almost enough evidence for it to be a fact, but some people don't agree with it. GRAVITY is a theory, but iuf it's not true then why are we not all floating around space? And Creationism has no fact to back it up besides "faith".

If any of this evolution stuff is real, which I don't think is, God was behind it all. Like the Big Bang....Who lit the Fuse?

this thread is a time bomb.....

Gravity I'm almost sure is Newton's Law of Gravity.  But just because we don't know how something works, doesn't mean there isn't another explanation that you can't quite comprehend...

There is not enough evidence for evolution to make it a fact.  That is ridiculous.  If there was then there would be no point to this discussion. 

I find that the concept of evolution within humans is ridiculous.  Evolution is survival of the fittest.  So in todays society why don't we have all those in Africa dying?  Because humans are compassionate beings and are taking steps to prevent it.  The general populace would not stand by while whole races die off.  Even more ridiculous that evolutionists would suggest that those emotions such as love and compassion would be controlled by chemical reactions in the brain.

Maybe because they are. Happiness and other emotions are caused by a relase of certain endorphins and other chemicals.

I said ALMOST enough evidence.

I'm going to stop posting on this thread because I agree with Regimas.

I gotta agree with what Appo said about that BB Theory. Thats not what it is. Its not that something exploded from nothing. There WAS something, a tiny compressed form that burst forth. The result of that explosion created all the debri that would form planets and stars and asteroids, etc... And of course theres alot more to it then just that.

Now, im not saying that I believe whole-heartedly in the BB Theory. There could have been another way. But I tend to think that it is more believable than having a supernatural being say "Hey I'm bored." and start poofing up planets and stars and animals and humans.

As for the Theory of Evolution, the signs are obvious. Sometimes I think that the only reason it isnt official is because it would cause serious problems which teaching it in schools and creation beliefs and stuff. As it is, the Evo Theory has caused enough problems with the religious community, if it was actually official then it would be worse. I'm not sure were all ready to accept it. Denial perhaps?

Yeah I second that thing Appo said about the endorphins. Also, your logic is kind of flawed there with the survival of the fittest thing. I dont quite understand what youre saying. What about the buffalo driven to extinction? Where was the compassion there? They didn't pass the test of survival of the fittest.

I was referring to evolution within humans as opposed to humans as a cause of killing off entire species.

I agree completely with everything you said here.

What?  You afraid of a little 'ol time bomb?     :P

There is NO fossil record that supports the THEORY of Evolution.  We have lots of skeletons of different animals that resemble each other........just like when scientiests a few thousand years from now look back, they'll suspect spider monkeys evolved into chimps, which evolved into gorillas, which evolved into us/them.  The dating system they use is flawed.....Period.  Plus since 97% of scientists all are just as convicned of Evolution *or at the very least that there is no God,* much of their work is spent looking at things through that narrow field.

You cant be serious...

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/evolution/blfaq_evolution_evidence15.htm
(Third paragraph is the best part)

......why?

So you're telling me the religious fanatics and believers aren't all just convinced that God created man *or atleast that there is no Evolution* and that doesn't narrow their field of thinking?

Well, if your a Chirstain, you should believe that God Created everything...now how folks believe he did it, is a different story

He could also have created Evolution...I don't believe it, but there is a possibility he did.

ok..........first, did you read what I wrote in the very next line that you DIDN'T quote?  and second, did you read what you linked to?

I will admit that I shouldn't have used the word 'support,' as that conclustion could come from such a simplistic veiw of the fossil record *really old lizard + not quite so old lizard that walks + T-Rex MUST = evolution*  I'll admit, vewing it from that standpoint would 'support' evolution.  The word I should have used is there is no SOLID evedence, let alone proof, of a link between two seperate species.  They admit this in nearly every line while maintianing solid confidence in their tone   

"Our modern wealth of knowledge about anatomy, embryology, biochemistry and biogeography provides ample evidence for evolution on its own. they brag... but when you look for the key words in their following statements, you see they have nothing solid.   

here is your "good part"

"The history of life, as represented by the fossil record, generally supports the theory of evolution without considering other evidence."

*note that they offer none of the inconvinient records that DON'T generally support the Theory they are pushing in this piece*

"If you look at the fossil record, you find a succession of organisms that is suggestive of incremental development. You see very simple organisms at first and then new, more complex organisms appearing over time."

*Not sure who in the Christain community argues with that **I'm aware that some do, but those are generally literal readers of the Bible, of whom I'm not** or what part of the Bible conflicts with that.*

"The characteristics of newer organisms frequently appear to be modified forms of characteristics of older organisms. Thus, this succession of life forms, from simpler to more complex, showing relationships between new life forms and those that preceded them, is suggestive of evolution. There are gaps in the fossil record and some unusual occurances, such as what is commonly called the Cambrian explosion, but the overall impression[i] one gets from the fossil record is one of incremental development.

So.........they have nothing.  They can look at the progression, and YES, if you take the most simplistic rout that excludes a Maker, then yeah, Evolution is probably the answer.  You think Faith is an easy choice??  That it's the "in Thing"??  If you do you've been living in a hole for the last few hundred years.  I don't believe because Evolution is just too complicated and because I'd like to just asume some greater being came and did all this with a wave of his hand.  I Believe because I don't want this to be all there is to life, and when taught with clearity and understanding, I felt Christianity was not the 'mystic, no science all faith' BS that many claim it to be

See Sev's post about the live clam that was tested as being over 500 years old......

um.........................am i?  not sure how or why you read that into what i said.  My comment was about the scientific community.  If you want to make the argument about the Christian community, feel free.  But don't ignore what I said but quote it like you really have me on something

All you did there was give more evidence to contradict your own statement that there is no fossil record to support evolution. The evidence is right there, youre listing it. You may say there is no SOLID evidence, but then where is the solid evidence that a Maker exists and created life? The fact that fossil evidence very much shows how evolution is true is the first thing I learned in my anthropology. I took the time after class to ask my professor today in person and get more facts. She laughed when I told her that someone told me that there was NO fossil record that supports evolution. She explained that there are two different types of evidence from fossil records that shows evolution. Seeing fossils through time and age, and seeing them through the different sediment layers and actually having the evidence right there in front of you.

Secondly, she told me how there are Darwinists who use an 'island' method to show evolution. They took a species of birds that can be found on different islands through out the world. Each island was different of course, and had different conditions. The different groups of birds have EVOLVED and changed to support the different environments more. The evidence is there, you choose to disregard it on claims that its not enough for you. Well, its enough for me. I can fill in the blanks here.

When did I say Faith was the 'in thing'? or an easy choice? Quote me if you want, but dont put words into my mouth.

Let me go check that now, ill edit in a moment...

EDIT
I cant seem to find that, where exactly is it?

Yes, you are. And this can be clearly seen when you list quite a bit of evidence in your quote there and yet right after begin the next paragraph with the line "So.......they have nothing." NOTHING????? You just listed evidence, how is that nothing? Because you CHOOSE it to be nothing. You choose to disregard it because you "Believe because I don't want this to be all there is to life..." Youre emotions are clouding your ability to think critically here. NEVER did i say Faith was an easy choice. IT IS THE HARDEST THING TO JUST PUT FAITH INTO A GOD YOU DONT KNOW EXISTS. However, i accept it as a possibility. My vision isn't narrowed by fear or emotion. I'd sure as hell like to believe that theres some tie in between a God and evolution. I would love to believe in a God and believe so much that you are willing to die for this entity that you cant see or hear or know if he exists. I envy you with your faith, but I go for fact, not 'truth'. And the facts point to evolution, not God.

Faith is more comlicated then Evolution. You have to trust in some invisible man with the power to do absolutely anything even though there is no proof he exists. Seriously.....wtf?

Why would you like to believe that some "greater being" came and did this all with a wave of his hand? Kinda makes us seem completely insignifigant...

And even if God exists, why doesn't he ever help anyone out? Why didn't he save all of those people in 9/11? Why doesn't he purge the world of evil so that we can all live in peace? And don't tell me he wants us to solve it on our own. That's just an excuse.

I agree with Val. I am someone who believes in facts, not faith. I like to have some actual proof about something before I believe in it.

I do accept that God is a possibility, but the facts point to Evolution.

There is no excuse. We solve things of our own to show that we know nothing. Faith is not easy, I had that problem for awhile; borderlined on it. If there is no proof of God; then answer this: Who created the microorganisms we are supposedly descended from.

That was already solved, actually. Amino acids and other chemicals along with a powerful energy source, such a lightning had a reaction which created life.

I think someone actually conducted an experiment which proved this. I gotta find a link...

EDIT: Aha! I have found it! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_experiment

They created organic matter out of unorganic matter by using a bunch of different chemicals/elements present on the Earth back when life began.

Science said there is no such thing as spontaneous life...

yeah, that really looks like something Pre-Life earth had on hand    :P

but joking aside, that didn't SOLVE that question.  The debate is still out on it, even if the extreme Evolution wing of science *wich is......yeah, about 95% of the scientific community if I heard correctly......the polar opposite of the worlds population ironically enough* says it is.

I have heard of that experiment, and I'm pretty sure it's NOT a solid piece of work.  If somebody with better search skills them myself could help me find the other side of this one I'd appreciate it

Faith is not an easy choice but there are only two options.  You either believe in a God, or you don't simple as that.   But the choice in itself isn't as simple.  Somehow that made sense.

And us living in a world that has supposedly existed over a billion years doesn't? 

So here you've been protesting God over and over yet when something bad happens it's all His fault?  Assuming God is real he gave His son to man.  God gave us free will to choose because creating something like a robot dog that only loves you isn't quite as satisfying as training that puppy with loving and nurturing and then to have it returned. He also gave us independence but now we have shoved that right back in his face.  God said if no one prays then He will do nothing.  So you assume that those did pray in their final hours are not now in a much better place and have received salvation that has been offered.  And of course there are those who claim to have been 'helped' by some other force to find the exit etc.  We choose whether or not to return His love.  That is a kind of love that I don't think you can quite comprehend.  I can't even begin to understand it.   

And another thing.  Where are these transitional forms the fossil records are referring too?  We still do not have one indisputable evidence.  Val's article states that these transitional forms have been found.  But none of them are listed.

And Appo the Miller-Urey experiment has been rejected by geochemists for quite some time now.  The experiment assumes that there was no free oxygen in the atmosphere at the beginning of time.  But evidence has pointed to the fact that there was.  It also started with an incorrect mixture of elements.

So this discussion is almost utterly pointless as there will almost always be one fact or another that will reject the other except for the thoughts based on faith.  Apparently we are quite set in our beliefs.    Obviously creationism is based on the principles of faith while evolutionists claim it was based on facts.  Both evolution and creation rely on faith to believe their point of view as their is no solid evidence to back either again a matter of perspective.  Please don't come back saying evolution is based on fact because somewhere I'll find something that may contradict what you say.  And then you will either find my source faulty or come up with another fact etc etc.  So it all comes down to faith. 

And again I'm not here to try to convert anyone, just trying to express my point of view.  So I'm sorry if I offended you in whatever I said.  And Appo, please don't go and slander Christianity when you don't have a sufficient understanding of its base principles.

I agree with you Sev. I didn't want to get into this, but I will say one or two quick things. I agree with RD's joke about the experiment. Sure, they may have created SOME of the proteins necessary to create amino acids for life (or something like that) but the conditions they simulated are most likely inaccurate, as they do not know what the climate was like back then. No one alive now does. And, that partially successful lab experiment took design. Intelligent people designed it. It did not come from nowhere. That's the irony.
     And, someone said the Big Bang came from nothing, and someone else retorted that it actually came from, not nothing, but a small compressed form. Where did that small compressed form come from? If you don't know, but you believe that's how the world began, that is faith by definition. Evolution is a faith at its base, if what this commenter said is true (am I wrong?).

The Universe goes on and on forever. It never ends, as far as we know. How can one being, even if he is supernatural, watch over something that never ends?  He'd be helping endless planets, which makes no sense because then he'd never have time to give Jesus to us or anything.

Even if God is real, does he watch over just Earth? Then where is he? Invisible? In medieval times we believed that God existed in the clouds up in the sky, in Heaven. Now we know that nothings there.

And we know what the center of the Earth is like. There is no Hell or Satan, just a Mantle, an Outer core, and an Inner Core. So Hell or Heaven can't be real.

Science is based on FACT, which means humans have proof that things exist. Faith is based on FAITH, which means that there is ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF.

People who are on the side of faith always argue about how Evolution is wrong, but they can't say anything to supporty their faith because of the lack of proof that God exists.

And Sev, I never said that if anything bad happens that it's his fault. I just said he never helps us.

And when did I slander Christianity?

I believe in God. :)

You never did answer my question. Science "proved" that there was no spontaneus life but it needs it to prove evolution. The experiment you showed was some one tring to prove that there was spontaneus life; not evolution. God is ultimate, he can watch over every thing in a short amount of time. People once believed there was nothing beyond the clouds. That was false. There is something beyond space as well. Hell can be described as a burning place of which no being can escape...if you were stuck in the mantle or core, would you not agree? Also, planets die on their own, look at Venus. Science says it once was alive, as well as Mars. Maybe God sent Jesus to them during their time, and no fossils exist because of a different atmosphere than Earth.

Sorry I guess I used slander a bit too loosely.  Again you have demonstrated a misunderstanding of Christianity.  So you believe Heaven and Hell are physical realms?  Believing in God gives a whole new element to everything you know.  The realm where principalities of the air live.

You also assume that there is life on other planets.  I have interpreted that differently from the Bible.  God created the entire universe for us so as we could worship Him.

Keep in mind we are both using the same facts.  Fossil Evidence, geology etc etc.  But it all comes down to your presupposition, that is how you interpret the facts.  Your presupposition is that there is no God and science is fact.  My presupposition is that the Bible provides enough proof for me to interpret the facts.  I found a bible verse that sums up what I believe.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Hebrews 11:1 KJV

HAHA!  now that's funny.....

You took the cartoon version of hell and use it to prove there is no God?  I understand that there are some sects of the Christian faith that still believe that, but that's NOT the overwhelming opinion on the matter.

I always find it entertaining when you hear the 'scientific community' and it's supporters who are supposed to be the MOST open minded, and that their duty as scientists is to NEVER, EVER, rule out a possability OR ACCEPT one until it had been proven scientifically one way or another.  Appo, you've said over and over again we can't see him, we have no proof...  If you take aside the fulfilled prophecies from the Bible, one of the more recent being the rebirth of an independent Israel, then yeah, then the phisical proof FOR Christianity is pretty thin.  HOWEVER, how is it openmindedness to trash it out of hand? 

As to where is God and Satan, there's lots of theories, just as there's inumberable thoughts on where the 'missing links' are.  I have been taught that they reside within a seperate dimension right here among us; that this other dimension explains the movements of Jesus after the Crusifiction *and if want to call me insane, scientists continue to debate the existance of other dimentions.  When they don't think Religion has anything to do with it, they suddenly seen open to the wildest of ideas....*  Satan, as I have been taught, is ironically enough in Heaven, under lock and key under the personal guard of.............is it Michael or Gabrial...........I don't remember which, but he is to be kept there until Judgement

"...Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe" -Jesus Christ

HAHA! now that's funny....

You say the scientific community isn't open-minded? Try and tell someone religious that God isn't real, they'll be so set that God is real that they won't even think about what the are being told or take into consideration what they are being told, at least in my experience.

The scientific community is will actually change what they think as they learn new things. Before Darwin, scientists didn't even know what Evolution was. As you said, 95% of scientists lean towards Evolution, ehich means that they DO accept new theories, unlike in religion where people are told that THIS is the way it happened. They don't do any research to try and prove that they are correct, they just assume that
Awhatever they believe in is right.

And stop cramming words in my mouth. I never used the "cartoon" versions of Heaven and Hell to say God wasn't real. I SAID SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!

And when did I ever trash or slander Christianity? I don't lie or anything about Christianity. I am not saying this because I am misinformed.

When you said I used the "cartoon" versons of Heaven and Hell, I used them because people used to believe that Hell was located in the center of the Earth and Heaven was up in the sky, which is completely wrong. If that's wrong then what other things about religion is wrong?

And Sev, pretty much nothing in the Bible was ever proven to be true, so how does it give you proof? That makes absolutely no sense.

I am seriously going to stop posting on this thread because it has absolutely no point. I am not getting through to anyone.

Note This: No one makes a fool of God and gets away with it. No one.

(To the above statements)
There is more prof for Creation than evolution actually.  But your "Open Minded" Scientist refuse to show or even listen to it. I want everyone here to go and watch this Movie: http://www.expelledthemovie.com/
WATCH THIS it is a trailer: http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playground.php

WOW. See this is what I talk to my friends about all the time.
1st off there is NO "prof" of evolution at all. Yes Darwin was right when he noticed the the birds changed but guess what? It didn't take billions of years. and the birds kept being birds! The bird were not "evolving" they were changing to suit their environment like everything does. There is no focils proving evolution right not even one. There is prof on the other hand of a world wide flood, Jesus and yep that's right Creation! I mean all you have to do is think about where ANYTHING comes from. If you ask some one where the 1st matter came form what do they say? Answer: they say you are stupid and not to ask stupid questions. Why? Because they don't know.
I want everyone here to go and watch this Movie: http://www.expelledthemovie.com/
WATCH THIS: http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playground.php

2ndly Have you ever head of the dead sea scrolls? These are scrolls that have been found and that date back to ruffly 100 AD part of these scrolls have parts of the Bible in them and I will admit not all but most are the same as the Bible we have today.

In the end it is not facts that will change your or my mind it is God. I was a Christian before I knew all the things I know now. I have done this many times and usually the people I debate with just get mad and leave. And it would have been better off if we had never had the debate. Most of us who are Christian are not Christian because facts. And most of you who are not Christian have another reason. And no matter how many facts I throw at you (and I can throw a lot) what I care about and what God cares about is your heart and you as a person not as a mind not as a number to check off but as a friend and as someone to talk to and to love. I hope I got everything across.

If you wan to talk more about facts or anything else you can PM me or e-mail me at: albenjammin@yahoo.com I think I will watch this page.

Oh yeah we leard about that in world history yesterdy...

Just about everything you said here is not what Christians actually believe, just what you assume we believe.

It sucks yo have had to deal with people like that, but the majority of Christians are not like that.

Uhh, wrong. Most people don't belive what they are told because theywere told it. Most of us realize that somethings are probably misunderstood or incorrect, and actually think about it, and come up with our own theories.

However, if someone put an article in the newspaper about how scientists have recently come up with a form of teleportation, most people would believe it.

True Draco. And yes it is annoying when someone just fights and forgets about what really maters, the heart.
Please check out this movie it is very funny and a great answer to everyone asking "where is the prof?".

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playground.php

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/video.php

this point may have already been brought up but if evolution rly did happen then why would it suddenly stop u know what i mean?
i believe god created the earth and all its beings and oceans but how would u define days back then so

and if evolution was real shouldn't humans have wings or some obscure thing that normal humans dont have.

Babtist All The Way

i didn't want to get in to this topic, very touchy subject,

but you obviously are too uninformed to post here

evolution doesn't work that way

Personaly i think evolution is real. And i believe in a creator. J.Fett, dont double/tripple post its considered spam

i completely agree, even the last part :P

Evolution doesn't work that fast. Plus, we have just about everything we need.

my thoughts exactly.