Topic: Moral progatives and logical fallices.

Well, here it is.  Anything you want to debate, post it here.  Global warming, evolution, immigration, Suns vs Spurs, whatever.  This is where the titans can clash and where only the brave dare to post.  As I've said before I enjoy "tweaking" people and so must warn that while my arguments are logical, they are not kind.  If you are a sensitive person, be advised not to make trivial posts.  To see an example of the way I post, see "The whales are going to lose" thread.  With that said, let the debate begin!

Conspiracy Theorists
Scientists
CLONING is it morally right?
Cloning
Is evolution real? Is evolution true?
Political poison

i believe the "force master" was looking to start a thread of more caustic, blunt discussion.
although, im not sure how many come to this site to looking to get hit over the head with
someones social or political opinion.

but i could be wrong...
it happened once. :P

and "force master". you should attempt to address one issue at a time, or threads get convoluted. IMO

Actually, this sounds like a pretty good idea.  Now someone just needs a topic.  I can't really think of any on my own that haven't already been argued quite thoroughly on this site already.  (heh)

  How about . . . animal activists and hunting!  That sounds juicy.  (I do hunt)

I love hunting, and PETA can get pretty overeactive at times. They released cards with a drawn picture of a man stabbing a live fish, and a woman gutting a live rabbit, in an attempt to get children to belive that that is what fishing and fur coats are about.

They are also practically terrorists.  A bunch of them burned a building down and a important member stated that if people didn't stop 'hurting' animal, then they would start hurting people.
(If you want proof, I'll get it later.  I'm tired right now)

cool, proof would be good.....:)

terrorists are evil......e......v.....i.....l!! if someone likes terrorists they can bug off!  (   except the ones who dont...lol!

often times when people become passionite for a cause they loose perspective.
for examples of this see...

religion, partisan politics...(opens a whole new can of worms)

as far as peta goes, they work the demagogue angle pretty hard.
poor helpless pets and so on, i dont always agree with them. but i often come to the defense of animals-
such is the case with the dog fights and so on. i believe that our(american) culture is built off
of excess and "because we can" logic, and that annoys me.

i have no issues with hunting for sport, but as always some foo's cross lines...

cool, thanks for the info, cujo.

i think hunting is ok and usually they have limits and seasons so you cant wipe out an entire species in ana area which is a good thing. usually there are a select few who go over board and they take those 2 say this is what happens just like the woman and the rabbit thing.

i know im spamming but how do you delete a thread and start a new one?

You can only delete your own threads by clicking the delete button. You start a new one by clicking the button designed for that purpose.

Yautja, I believe you, but I would not mind seeing the source, if it is not too much trouble.

Here's a good article.  It's long, but you can skim through it and see what I mean.

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/headline/2339

And another.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/19/AR2005121901777.html

This one is probably the clearest, though.

http://www.animalrights.net/archives/year/2002/000370.html

Thank you very much.

It depends on the hunting.

I will never agree with fox hunting. I hate it.

I also do not see hunting as a sport. I see hunting as being a way to get food/fur to use.

I also think that if you are to hunt you should cause the animal as little distress as possible. We are in a really fortunate position that we can do this. And of course animals should not be over hunted. Obviously with hunting comes responsibility.

Now about animals activists.

I do not really see myself as an animal activist but I really do not like seeing animals suffering seeing cruel things being done to animals. I truly will never understand how people can take pleasure from hurting animals. I do not think animals should be used for cosmetic testing. I also do not like the medical testing on animals but I do know that a viable alternative needs to be found before anything is done about that. I also really do not like the fur trade. There is so much cruelty involved it is disgusting. There is such good fake fur to wear that there is no point in wearing real fur (with the exception of those who are living in harsh landscapes like Eskimos etc)

Though I NEVER agree with the extreme activists who in my opinion do so much damage in their attempt to do something that they think is good.

There was a case in England where some animal activists released some animals from a zoo thinking that they were doing good. In reality they released a bunch of sick animals that were not native to this country that would have suffered before dying. I thought that was a stupid thing to do.

This topic may not belong here at The Boba Fett Fan Club. To reiterate item 6 in the posted rules:

Hmmm... I geuss the question is will my "tweaking" of people be disrespectful of others.  I will not post any coments that are intentionaly hatefull or malicious.  My brother tells me that he has seen people use profanity on other forums, espetial in reference to Jango.  I try to refrain from profanity, exept  in the use of comman phrases or in reference to others profanity.  Sexualy oreinted posts, privicy invation, and law breaking are not things I would even think of doing. They hinder logical disscution. What would happen is if people posted a comment that gave me a chance to "tweak" them, I probably would.  It wouldn't be hurtful, just annoing.  If you still think that this thread is a bad idea, then please post and I will cease and desist.

And now for responses:
Draco: What did you mean by the threads you posted at the top?  Were they topic Ideas or were they just there to show my some other threads to post on?

cujo: While it is true that the treads could get tangeled, I hope to keep that from happening by responding to whatever topic is currently the one everyone is posting about, currently Hunting and PETA.  And I agree with you that passionite people often become blinded by their goals, but peta intential goes to the extreme intentionaly, trying to tick people off.  And it oftan blows up in their face, such as when they ran aground on a reef they were trying to protect.

Devil girl: I'm not sure about fox hunting.  I need to know more about it before I can make a ruling on it.  Please send me a source or two (and its best that they not be connected to peta in any way.) 
As for hunting, what you say is true with causing as little pain as possible.  I really have no opion on sport hunting, pity, seeing as this is currently the topic of choise.  And yes, I personaly think that you can be an animal rights activist and eat only veggies, just don't get in my face when I start grilling my steaks, which I need to do now and so I'll end my post here.

I also do not like to see animals suffer from someones malice or carelessness.  I have quite a few pets myself, and I like most animals.  (Except dogs)  I enjoy hunting because it's a challenge, just like many of the other things I do.   When you hunt, you are always taught to kill the animal as quickly as possibly in order to cause it as little discomfort as possible.

Force Master R,  you do have some very good arguments, but what exactly do you mean when you say tweak?  You keep saying it, and I have to admit, it is slightly annoying.

As someone who has grown up with hunting all his life whenever me and my dad go hunting every animal we get we eat.  I think hunting for sport is quite stupid, pointless.  Except when it comes to coyotes.  And I'm sure almost every chicken farmer agrees with me.

Force Master R, I am a vegetarian (and planning on becoming a vegan) I have absolutely no problem with people eating meat. I have even cooked meat for others. I also used to work in a pub where I had to cook food, which included cooking meat. It did not bother me at all. LOL I was even told by someone that I cooked a perfect steak for them :)

Here is a link to what Wikipedia says about fox hunting. This will pretty much tell you what you need to know. There will also be more links on that page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_hunting

I do not like fox hunting as there is a much better way than that but then again fox hunting in my opinion is not really about controlling the fox population.

Foxes are killed for the same reason that coyotes are. Though I still think that you should not show off about it. Devil boy has seen some pictures of people parading over bodies of coyotes and I do not think that is right. As far as I am concerned you do what you need to get done. I am sorry but showing off over dead animals does not seem right to me.

There must be a way though to protect the chickens better from foxes and coyotes.

or if you wanted to go hunting you could get a bb rifle or something.......

You could not kill a deer with a BB rifle.

you probably could make a rabbit un concious i would think if not, " doh! "

That would be animal cruelty. And you could not knock out a rabbit with a BB.

i know it's animal cruelty and you were right about the bb not hurting it, i like rabbits anyway , i dont want to hurt them..... :)

That all depends on what type of BB gun you are using. While most of the airsoft guns nowadays are pretty harmless, I have 1 in my closet that could most likely knock out a rabbit. It leaves a hell of a welt on a human anyway.

Yeah, but you'd have to be a damn good shot to knock out a small animal with something like that.

  If you want to go small game hunting, a .22 cal rifle is probably the best thing to use.  anything larger is overkill, and anything smaller would not have a good enough chance of killing it. 

A BB gun is generally thought of as the 4.3 mm variety, like the type used in the 'Red Rider' air guns.

BB's are commonly mistaken as pellets, and vice versa, but pellets  guns use C02, and are considerably more powerful.  Pellet guns can be used for hunting, while BB and airsoft guns are mostly recreational.

By "tweak" I mean I like to annoy people by posting or saying comments that use ones own comments against them in a debate.  For example, I had a friend brag that their brother was perfectly behaved vs my little brother who was a terror.  I responded by saying that children who are too perfect as children grow up to be Sociopaths.  She said that she was perfect as a child. I responded with "I rest my case."  It also works in the same way I posted in response to Fetterthanyou, who was a good sport about it.

Devil Girl: Bravo! I enjoy talking (or in this case, posting) with people who can keep a level head in a debate and who can cook a good steak as well.

and by the way, has the subject changed from "hunting and peta" to "could I knock out a rabbit with a red rider at 5 yards"?

"I rest my case" is one of the greatest lines of all time. Not only does it make most people pause in thought, but it is a great way of completely destroying someone with their own words. And as for being a good sport, I usually never get riled up about debates unless somebody is completely undeniably wrong... and they deny it. So as long as there is a captivating response on the other side, I'm good.

I think I could do it.

But as for PETA, all I can think of for the moment is the South Park episode where PETA has a community where they marry the animals and save Stan's horse while he is starving and dehydrated. While I really don't think they go that far, they have been known to do completely stupid things and that just makes me wonder why they think their activism is any better than what they are fighting?

blah, blah

Green, that is completely spam. As stated previously, I have to report you.

I'm sure some types of BBguns could knock out a rabbit, especially with pellets,  but it would have to be one of the more powerful kinds.

Now look here.  You are really starting to piss me off.  Everyone here has been extremely patient with you and your spamming, and has tried to help you.  If you're not going to learn, you'd better leave the site now, because it's only going to go downhill from here.

There's a good debate idea, "What should be done with spammers, trolls, and those noobs who cuss unceasingly in online video games?"

Please continue to report offending posts, rather than take the issue too much into your own hands. The best approach here is to ignore the tangents and continue to lead a quality, forward discussion. Thanks. :)

They should all be thrown in the pit of dispair. But seriously I can't stand those people. Especially the Screamers who just yell into the mic for no reason. Seriously why, it just makes you look like an idiot and can get u banned after a while. There is no point to it.

Thye need to install the punch-o-matic. If you computer / game console picks up any spam, trolling, or completely annoying online behavior it throws a punching glove and socks you in the face. Oh if only...

I personaly favor a "blue screen of death" with the message "You are a moron. Your harddrive has been erased as punishment. Have a nice day."

And as for peta, I think that any organization that tries to promote there cause by using a combonation of petty insults, illogical comparisons, and terrorist tactics is not to be taken seriously, exept for charges of criminal stupidity.

I agree with my bro on this one the "Blue screen of death"is hard to beat and moron is just so fun to use.

Very classy.

And stylish.

Thank you :)

I think that the more level headed that you can stay the better you can get your point across. I managed to have a drunken debate with someone about fox hunting and not only did we both have a reasoned debate but neither of us got mad. We both enjoyed it and even though none of us changed our points of view it was still enjoyable.

Hehe when I used to cook the steaks I just used to chuck them under the grill and hope for the best :lol: (thankfully I had no complaints and no one was sick)

Anyway for the next discussion, what do you think about animal testing? (Both cosmetic testing and medical testing)

I do not agree with cosmetic testing as now I do not think there is any need for it any more. Surely there should be enough items that have already been proved to be safe to mix and match those to get something new.

As for medical testing, I do not believe that animal testing is the most efficient way of testing something. Animals have a different system than us so you cannot be sure that how it works on the will be the same as on us. There was a case in England last year where a drug had been tested on animals but the human testing stage went disastrously wrong ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4807042.stm )

I do not know what would be a better way but there must be a better way.

yes I agree that we stop animal testing but I think why they still do it is just in case something go's bad they know.(Pluse animals don't sue).

Medical testing on animals doesn't make any sense to me.  As Devil Girl said human and animal immune systems are completely different.  It's so ridiculous that there has to be a good reason for it.  That's all I can say.

I think it is sadly more to do with that animals are seen as being dispensable.

I'm pretty sure that it's because they would rather accidentally kill an animal than a human.   Unless they can figure out a way to test procedures or what have you, I don't see how you can make any progress in any scientific or medical fields.

I'm 100% sure that some people do see animals this way, but I don't think that is the reason they do it. They do it because it is better to cause harm to an animal than another human. At least that is the idea, and I agree with that. If there really is the technology to test things in other ways, not only do they do that, but they also test it on the animals just to make sure.

They also test products on homeless people because they are willing to do anything for the money. Do you think that is wrong? Because I think that if they are willing to risk themselves for the bettering of technology, and it helps them economically... There is nothing wrong with it.

Plus, if they AGREE to do it to themselves then it should be fine. Animals don't do it willingly.

But surely by saying that it is better to lose an animal than a human you are also saying that animals are dispensable.

I am not saying that they enjoy doing what they do to animals but just that they are seen as dispensable.

I did not know that homeless people were offered to test drugs.

I think it would be good if a better way could be found to test drugs so that there would be no need for animal testing at all. Hopefully it will happen.

But the problem arises that as of now, we no other way.  And no, it's not saying that animals are dispensable but humans are indispensable.  There is a fine line there.

Yeah,say that after 50 years when the food chain will be broken and you won't have food to eat.

Something like that will never happen as there are an abundance of animals that have meats that can be consumed.