Topic: Spartans and Mandalorians

If any of you have seen the new movie 300, you will know it's pretty awesome.

Me and my friend Chase have come up with the disagreement that mandalorians are the equivalent, if not better to that of the spartans.

Agree?  Disagree?

Are mandalorians the spartans of the star wars universe?

I always saw the Spartans as an amazing story, mostly because it is true. (not everything in the movie, artistic liscence and all)

I'd say that the Spartans were better in their time than the Madalorians were in theirs. 300 Spartans took on the Persians and held ground for much longer than they should have. Finally they were just overwhelmed with too many arrows and soldiers. The ending was very close to the "true" story though.

The Persians were seen as an unstoppable force. They controlled the Immortals, huge beasts, and anyting you could image. But 300 spartans still held their own, not to mention that they completely obliterated them when they came back in full force. I do not recall the Madalorians have ever completeing such a feat.

no I think the mandalorians are much better than the spartans.

This may belong in Role Playing.

Outline, care to say why?

Compared in their own times, I'd say the Spartans. The Mandalorians have much better weopanry that the Spartans could not compete with, but they were better in their own time than the Mandalorians were in theirs'. And the Spartans were extremely disciplined. There is a tale of a Spartan boy who hid a fox under his cloak. The fox, while trying to escape, dug itself into the boy's side. The boy showed no signs of pain at all, until he collapsed, dead.

Spartans because of the discipline they have and the strength and training they undergo at such a young age would make the superior to the mandalorians of the times

Don't mandalorians also have pretty much the same lifestyle though?

No. They are family obssesed kind, warm hearted type of people now. Originally, they were all like Boba Fett, but then Traviss came along.

The Mandalorians saw their family and battle as important. The Spartans saw battle and death at the hands of a worthy adversary above all as the main reason for living. A spartan would never show pain of any sort, and their wives would tell them, "Come home with your shield, or on it." Meaning return victorious or dead. There was no surrender, no retreat, no cowardice of any kind. If you did not fit the profile, you were... "discarded"

If we were talking about the Crusader/ Neo-crusader Mandos it would be a pretty tough fight.  If the odds we're even and you trained the Spartans in the art of blaster fire and echani hand-to-hand, you'd have a pretty deadly force.  So I'd give this one to the Spartans.

Haha, Draco, am I getting the vibe that you don't enjoy the new Fett/mandalorians that Traviss is putting into her books?

Let's not go by reference of Karen Traviss, what then?  Would the mandalorians be the equivalent of the spartans? 

In a Star Wars insider magazine I read it talks of the mandalorian culture, and I feel like they have tons in common.

oh, and Sev, why would you give it to the spartans?  Are they not almost exactly like the neo crusaders?

I see almost no difference.  Even if you taught them to use blasters and echani fighting or whatever, The Mandalorians would still be equivalent I think.

Am I just stupid or something?

I wouldn't say anyone is stupid just because of their opinion in a speculative situation like this.

My opinionis this:
Spartans were more impressive in their time than the Mandalorians were in theirs.
Mandalorians would obviously win if they got in a fight, because they have way advanced technology.
If the Spartan culture was transplanted into SW time zone, I would say that the two groups would be very similar. But I still believe the Spartans have the advantage, they just have a more rigerous life style. But in the end, I think they would reject the idea of blasters and all use vibroblades.

But the neo crusaders still have some of the family ties and they value their family a bit more than the Spartans do which could be looked at as a weakness or strength.  But these two societies are so similar that I could say Mandos were based off of Spartans like you said.  But the Spartans were trained at a bit of an earlier age and some were full fledged fighters be the age of 15.  It really could go either way.

In their time, the Spartans were probably better than the Mandos, as much as I hate to say it. The cultures still have their similarities, though,

True, there are similarities, but I think the Mando'ade are a little more...humane.

~*Ruusaan <><

Ya, not much of a battle. One thermal detonator could take out the whole line of Spartans. They wouldn't have a chance, so that is why we were concentrating more on culture and fighting skill instead of tech.

I have not seen the 300 Movie yet, but I do not like the fact that they wear no armor. That's historically inaccurate.

Anyway, I do find some big differences between the Spartans and the Mandalorians. First of all, Spartans would inspect babies and deem them worthy of life. If they were seen unfit, they would be exposed to the elements and left to die. As far as I know the Manalorians did no such thing. Secondly, the Spartans had a simpler life, eating black broth an wearing plain clothes. They began training the youth at age seven. The soldier's rite of initiation was to kill a a slave without being caught. The Spartan

Spartan Hoplites wore helmets, chest plates, the metal skirts, and leg armor. But these were all optional pieces of armor that were a soldiers own choice to wear or not to wear. The shield was the only piece of armor that meant anything. Without the shield the Phalanx would fail and so would the Spartan line. So that is why it was said to "Come back with your shield or upon it."

In the movie, it shows the Spartans wearing some armor, but I believe Leonidus is the only one to be seen in full garb at one point. Just to make him look more awesome.

i think that they would most likily team up! becuase mandalorians got the weapons and tech and spartans have.... have..... stuff! so they would team up but if they fought i would give it to the mandalorians becuase even for an fearless spartan a mandalorian flying and shooting bolts of the red sun at u.... if would be pretty unerving. even if the spartans held there ground the mandos had to much advanced weaponry.
sorry for posting this agian i accedentally deleted it.

300  (the movie) is based off of a Frank Miller (Mr.Sin City) comic depecting the tale. So the movie is done to look much like the graphics of the book,much like Sin City was. Lots of darks and lights, and monotone colors and what not.

I think the two societies have alot in common. They certainly are both stubborn as hell.

While there are a few similarities, the Mandos are more like Vikings, Celts and Sarmatians than they are like Spartans. Spartans heed slaves, women have an inferior role, and Spartans go by the rule of the strongest; an infant that is regarded "weak" is rejected.

The spartans were inhumane.

Yes and no. They were a warrior race, they did what they needed to do in order to stay strong. They knew their survival depended on being the best warriors, and they were right. When 300 of their soldiers can hold against the largest army ever assembled... they are doing something right.

But by today's standards, maybe maybe not. They were one of the few places that believed in freedom over all things. They also held their women in higher esteem than the other nations did(though still below men). And although it is seen as "wrong" to discard babies and send their children out alone at age 6 or 7, they did what they felt to be necessary.

Females were treated as equals in Sparta, they just did not fight but they did go through gymnastics and they also went through some physical training and melee combat training

That is not inhumane at all if you compare it to the Noresman. One of themwas known as "The Child Lover" because he refused to throw children into the air and catch them on his sword.

Females were not treated as equals. They were seen as much more important than they were in other cultures, but they were not seen as equals. The Spartans did let their women have an unprecidented amount of physical training and education, and they respected them as the bearers of their children. In comparison to the other nations of this time, women were treated AMAZINGLY well.

women could also own land and other things so they were pretty much equals they were not mistreated by any means

I agree to all the posts from Draco Fett and Fetterthanyou, who see the reality of the situation better than the rest of you. The Spartans were not mercenaries giving their talents to the highest bidder. They were great warriors who faced almost impossible odds to defend their people. While Mandalorians are quite honorable, the honor and courage displayed by the Spartans is nearly incomparable. Therefore the Spartans were better in their time than the Mandalorians were in theirs.

The Spartans were not that honorable; they were completely willing to cheat in the Olympics.

I mean during combat, and even more during the events that took place in 300.

Why, oh why did you have to compare two of my favourite societies??   ARGH.  Oh well.  If I really thought about it, the Spartans were amazing.  For me the Spartans were better in their time than the Mandos were in theirs.  Their bravery in the face of certain death, how far they were willing to go to protect Sparta and their families is astounding.  Mandos and Spartans are nearly equal to me, but the dedication of a Spartan outweighs that of a Mandalorian in my opinion.  But not by much.

It does to me because the Mandalorians are fictional while the Spartans really did do what they did.

Ouch.  Good point.  Reality aside, Spartans are still (barely) better.

They are both extremely cool, I must admit.  Also, perhaps you are right, the Spartans were better for their time then the Mandalorians were.  However, I'm still going to like Mandalorians more, they have cooler armor, and blasters, and jet packs, and even on occassion very cool accents like Jango.

How unfortunate that they are figments of imagination.

No kidding.

Oh so the Mandalorians are real then?

The only things there that are not real are blasters, if you generalize.

The Mandalorian culture isn't real either. Or the material their armor is made of. Or a jetpack with a built in missile launcher. Individually the missile and jetpack are real, but together they aren't.

This isn't about the reality of the Mando's; it's about whether the Spartans are worse/good/equal to the Mandalorians.  Unless I am sadly mistaken, and I need to get my eyes checked.  As we all have a large degree of imagination, just PRETEND they are real, if that helps.  Or think about it logically, and turn this thread into something completely different than that what it was to begin with.

Let me throw my ideas in.

If you look at the Mandelorian armor, they have their likenesses.  For example the Helmet.  I've seen Praetorians using T visors as well as Vikings.

And lets say you pit 300 Mandelorian Super Commando's against one million EP3 Clones with similar terrain/bottleneck.  Do you think they'd be able to accomplish what the 300 Spartans did?

In my opinion I believe they would, but it'd be a bit difficult as 1, they don't use sheilds, and 2, were talking about blaster fire, not swords/pikes.

But it's something I'd pay to see =)

The Spartan helmet is of Attic and Corinthian nature.

Mandos use any kind of weapon they can get. There are those who prefer long-range snipers, usual blaster guys, heavy weaponry, slugthrowers, melee combatants, swordfighters and so on...

However, going by the fact that clones use blasters only, the Mandos wouldn't stand a chance against curtain fire from the clones... a few bolts can be deflected by their armor, but that's it. Just imagine the scene in 300 when the arrows came down, and then think again, without their shields.

The situation largely depends on the battlefield. A plain battlefield, without cover or trenches or height differences, would make the clones win any second. On a battlefield that is hilly, that provides lots of cover due to defense setups, natural cover like rocks and alike, as well as trenches and all in a narrow valley or something, with only one way to get in, would tip the scales to the side of the Mandos.

Yes, but as Kel Solaar said: they'd be in a bottleneck canyon, which, as you say, would tip favour to the Mando's.  I still think the Spartans were better, but as I said earlier, not by much.

Ah, well, I overread that part with the bottleneck. It's all for the Mandos, then. More specialized, more advanced gear, and overall more adaptable and able to improvise more than standard clones.

There is nothing wrong with making mistakes (goodness knows I do nothing else...)

But given a comparison between Mando and Spartan, which one was/is better in their timeline in your opinion?

Well, the Mandos of a far longer timeline to look upon than the Spartans. If we take KotOR Mandos, then the answer is that they are by far better than the Spartans, given their superior equipment and tactics in comparison to Republic forces. Heck, they even captured dozens of Jedi to "study" them.

The Spartans, on the other hand, had not really advanced gear to their opponents (quite the contrary, when you look at the grenades and the beasts from the Persians in 300), but they relied on bulletproof tactical combat and fighting skill.

I'm pretty sure a Mando would still be as good a fighter when he uses the same equipment or inferior than his opponent, but we wouldn't really know, would we? You know the drill, like "a pilot's only as good as his starfighter" - then again, there are pilots you'd expect to do much of the same good in a bulky landspeeder (see Wedge).

Overall, I'd say there are about even in skills. Although, I must say that I least of all identify Spartans with Mandalorians. Vikings, Celts, Sarmatians, Mongols are more like them.